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Patreon Research - Uncertainty! Ideas! Hope!
4 years ago2,656 words
I've looked at a few other indie developers' Patreons to get ideas about how to structure mine. There have been disheartening things, some hopeful things; it's been a journey!

Yesterday, I wrote a post venting about worry woes, not for the first time. Amusingly, it seems that I post about the same general issue every couple of months like clockwork, though in my mind it didn't seem as frequent as that. It's embarrassing, but I suppose it's going to keep happening unless I actually do something about it and break out of the cycle.

Just setting up my Patreon properly will be a little step. I don't know if it'll amount to anything significant financially, but it's better than nothing, and on a psychological level it feels like progress.

I technically have had a Patreon account for years, but I don't consider it 'officially open' at the moment even though I do technically have supporters on there.

Largely it's due to a sort of embarrassment, I suppose. I was never any good at actually maintaining it or interacting with the people who supported me because I set it up during darker days, when I was even more crippled by my demons than I am now, and I felt bad about taking money from anyone without delivering anything reliably... but also didn't want to just shut it down because I was so scared of being penniless, then I felt bad about that and... bleh, I suppose that just led to pretending it didn't exist, or something.

Several people have expressed a desire to support me though, and I certainly need the money. I don't know if I'll make enough from games sales, and that income is going to be really spread out anyway. Things have changed a lot since a few years ago though. Now I know exactly what I'm doing, I have a clear goal which I'm working towards every day. I've been posting stuff I make on this blog and Twitter, and it actually seems like it'd be really nice to have somewhere I could post updates like that for the eyes of the people who care the most.

I'm trying to think of methods I can use to push through my various avoidance issues. The root of these issues seems to be the underlying fear that if I do the thing I'm avoiding, I'll experience anxiety symptoms which will consume me for a long time. I seem to feel better when I can vent about these feelings, but usually I don't have anyone to talk to, so I end up avoiding so as not to experience them in the first place. So perhaps essentially talking to myself in a blog post like this will allow for immediate verbal release of any negative feelings if I do experience them at any part of the process. Talking about things does help immensely, for me at least. It's the main reason I keep this blog.

So with that in mind, I'm going to research how other creators have used Patreon, to know how best to set up my own, and to have a better idea of what to expect from it or do with it, and I'll be talking in this post about what I find. Hopefully by the end of it I'll at least have a better idea of how the whole thing works, and I'll have broken through one of these ridiculous mental barriers which has blocked me for so long.

So let's get started!



Well, I say all that, but I actually briefly started researching this last night. I googled 'patreon indie game developer' or something, expecting to find articles saying things like "what to offer to patrons as an indie developer!", since that's the biggest question I have myself at the moment.

The first result that came up was this Patreon: [LINK]

It's for a team of three people working on something described as a "2D retro multiplayer mmo-like RPG" called Aether Story, and from what I can tell, I think the game might actually already be playable in some form? It has four patron tiers (or 'membership levels', as I they seem to be called on Patreon?), and the language used for these and the description is very thorough, comes across as professional and thought-out. Lots of effort has been put into preparing the page, planning the tiers, and making the game.

It has 13 patrons for a total of $136 per month.

I wonder how the developers feel about that. It's certainly disheartening to see. But maybe there's a lot of other stuff going on that I'm not aware of; maybe it used to earn more, but recently died or something; I wouldn't know. I just see a slice. Or maybe they're happy with that amount?

It allows me to put my own position into perspective; I feel like I've already had more people than that expressing interest in supporting me, so maybe I'd do a bit better. I don't know.

Next.

Here's the second result: [LINK]

It's for a team of four who describe themselves as having "decades of industry experience between us". I wonder whether they're older developers who found working in the industry on big teams miserable and split off to pursue their own ideas - this apparently happens a lot - or whether this is just bigging up something which is more equivalent to my own 'working in the industry' (that is, making free games from my bedroom in my parent's house).

Their tiers are really informal, just snappy sentences about how they'll help out the developers; nothing that the patron would get in return. That'd be way easier for me to do, but I'd also feel bad offering nothing in return.

Their description sounds professional-ish as well, with a bit of informal honesty about the real reason money's needed: just to pay the basic bills.

But they only have 4 patrons, offering an undisclosed amount each month. It's sad putting myself in their minds, being a team of four possibly-previously-professionals and pouring all this effort in, hoping to make a living from it, and nobody seems to care...

It helps again to put my own situation into perspective. Thanks to the success and enduring fanbase of MARDEK, I definitely feel I have an advantage that most developers don't. I'm definitely failing to take advantage of that at the moment, partly because I fear I'm naive for believing this to be the case. Maybe once I post on Reddit boasting about how I made this successful Flash game once, I'd be as un-noteworthy as everyone else. I've been spoiled by being treated as if I was some amazing ~celebrity~ or something (though it's been a long time since all that), so being ignored feels like the worst possible outcome. Even though hiding away to avoid pain isn't getting me anywhere.

Anyway, next.

This is the third Google result: [LINK]

Perhaps I should be making a note of exactly what these other people are offering for their tiers, since that's what I'm struggling to decide on. Hmm. Five tiers seems too many to me! And it's interesting that this one starts at $3. I also notice that all three of these Patreons' tiers include Discord benefits, so it seems that's the norm. Maybe I'll have to start a damn Discord myself, UGGGHHHH!!1 ...I say, dreading a return to the stresses of community management that was Fig Hunter. I don't want to worry about community drama! And yet I - and others! - made lasting and meaningful connections from my communities, so HMM... Maybe I do need to do that.

I suppose if people have to pay to get in, that'd reduce the chance of trolls? But then I hate the thought of a highly combative person paying and then joining and I'd feel like I was beholden to them in some way, like I was a customer support person who always had to keep a polite the customer is always right! mentality at all times... Stressful just to think about.

Offering demo builds would actually be really useful, and I can see that being an appealing thing to support for. So I'll consider that.

I looked at the person's website, and they have a lot of tutorials on there, most of which have 0 comments. Again, perspective.

It's interesting again how they present themselves in a professional way, describing themselves as 'we', the team, throughout the Patreon page, but when you look at the "About the team!" section, it lists one person. I mention this professionalism because no doubt I'd be... well, not like that. You know me! I'd probably describe myself as literally insane and talk about my brain surgery and how my bum hurts or something.

Would that amount to more supporters than the 28 this person has?!?

Personally I'd prefer someone who presented themselves in a more honest and human way, but I'm weird; maybe most people would be put off by something that didn't sound professional.

28 is not a large number, but if you imagine these people behind these numbers in a physical space, sitting in a lecture theatre around the person they're supporting, it doesn't seem that bad, and having way more just feels overwhelming. I wonder how much they're collectively paying per month.

Also, I checked this person's Twitter, where they have fewer followers than me (I've made no effort to ever gather any myself), and follow 17 (I follow 0; I feel awkward about that and want to change it). Their posts - or mostly retweets, I barely understand Twitter - get about as many likes as my own though? Interesting. They tweet about their tutorials, and get more likes and retweets about them than they get comments on the tutorial itself.

Interesting. I'm getting a better idea of what I should do for my own, so I'm not sure how many of these I should keep looking at. Maybe I'll do one more, for now, since this post is getting long; I can always update whatever I make over time.

Next!

Oh, it looks like all the articles I was expecting to find are coming up next in these results; I'm just surprised those fairly low-performing accounts came up first. Maybe it's because I had 'patreon' as the first word or something.

I noticed ∞ this post ∞ because the name Jeff Vogel seems familiar, though I can't place it... Something to do with Kongregate, maybe? I don't know! Let's see what he says, though at this point I feel familiar enough with the general idea that I'm wondering if I'll see anything new or surprising.

Ah, Spiderweb Software! That does ring a bell! This is interesting, since perhaps this person's previous success was more like my own than these other people's?

He links to a Kickstarter which is a remaster of something called Geneforge, which I vaguely recognise, but never played.

It got $85,000! 2,111 backers.

See, things like this are what I should be looking at, really. I feel like I have the potential to get something similar considering my past successes... It's just a matter of pushing through the avoidance and actually doing something to get the word out.

Perhaps with MARDEK I've missed my chance by leaving it so late... but then again, it's not exactly a remaster. Maybe Divine Dreams could do just as well, but I don't know, is it too different? Or maybe it's at a high enough quality that people will be impressed rather than put off??

Anyway, I'll keep reading the article.

He talks about letting his backers contribute ideas, which makes sense; I essentially give that away for free at the moment.

An aside, from following links: ∞ this article ∞ talks about a team of four (young!) indie developers who've turned to Patreon for funding (they look like a boyband or something...). There's a link to ∞ their Patreon ∞: $5,285 per month! 1,506 patrons! Now that's more like it!

They say they release two games a month, which seems insane to me. The games don't look to be of a very high quality individually, but with that quantity, I can imagine support feeling worth it. Plus if they're releasing them all and charging for them, that'd add up to a lot too.

It's not exactly appropriate for my situation though. I'm one person releasing huge games rarely. Still, nice to see they're doing well with it.

Back to the article, it also mentions Dwarf Fortress getting by on donations, but that's famous (as it notes); it has the sort of "I was here first" history which no money can buy. MARDEK has that to some degree.

If you have an old game that has some appeal, Humble will sell a million copies of it for pennies each. They get chum to throw in the waters, and you get visibility and a nice check.


Hmm.

If you have a new indie game that looks fancy, the Epic Game Store will pay you a huge advance to have an exclusive. Then they get the prestige of selling it, and you get patron bucks. Whether the game actually sells enough to make it profitable for Epic doesn't actually enter into the equation. (Thus, this is more like the patronage of antiquity than it at first appears.)


I suppose games have to be of a certain quality though? I know that Soulstorm, the Abe's Exoddus 'Reimagining', is going to be an Epic Games exclusive (if it ever even comes out). That's likely AAA quality. My work isn't!

We have sold many games on Humble, and it really carried our business during some lean times. We want to sell games on Epic, but our tawdry wares have not yet appealed to them. (Hey Epic, we got some really funky old indie games full of prestige, available for a giveaway for but a tiny taste of the Fortnite billions!)


Yes.

I've been at this for a while, and since I'm so out of my comfort zone, it's exhausting. It's been quite journey! The first few results weren't so promising, though they did help me actually feel better about my own potential advantages. I should probably read more about successful Kickstarters like that again, rather than getting disheartened like I did with the post yesterday.



I won't do anything with my own Kickstarter just yet, but from all that, here's what I'm thinking for some possible tiers; I'd prefer just three rather than four or five:


$3 - Bronze
Access to Patron-exclusive updates on Patreon. I'd post quite often, with things like what I've been posting on Twitter recently.

$6 - Silver
Access to a Patron Discord. I'm reluctant, but it seems to be the norm.

$12 - Gold
Access to demo builds, and a special Discord place for Gold members.


I'm interested to hear your thoughts about all this!

I've been hiding away for ages due to mental illness, but once I actually tame my demons enough to stumble out of my dark cave, the light doesn't burn quite as much as they told me it would. It really does feel like once I start getting out there, it'll become a whole lot easier, and perhaps I do have a history I can really make use of to make something of this, eventually. (If I got $80,000 on Kickstarter, that'd help me feel secure for years!)

So yes, hopefully you got something out of reading my train of thought here! It certainly helped to write it all out.

If you know of any other Patreons I should check, let me know! I might update this post with some more research later.

22 COMMENTS

Falcon64~4Y
Some other ideas for what to potentially include as patron rewards:

– Listing the patrons in the credits of the game.
– Making game-related art in your spare time and sharing it exclusively with patrons (for potential wallpaper use?).
– Putting the names of high-tier patrons (altered to fit the lore) in-game somewhere, for example on gravestones, or as the names of merchants etc.
– Piggybacking onto the above, letting the patrons have some hand in the design of those NPCs (subject to your scrutiny and alteration, of course).

The last two options would likely warrant a higher payment tier than what you have so far as the highest, if you were to decide to incorporate them.
7
Tobias 1115~4Y
I'd definitely include patrons in the credits! I wonder whether it's normal to restrict that to certain tiers or not.

Making art is trickier though; I suspect the amount of time and effort that goes into that stuff is easy to underestimate. People who create really good art do it full time because it's a full-time job; I'm too busy doing everything else to sit down for the hours required to make something impressive. I could experiment with it anyway, but it's very non-trivial!!

I could add references to patrons in some form. One possibility is asking for monster suggestions!

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Falcon64~4Y
I suggested art because I know you enjoy drawing, but you definitely shouldn't let that, or other patron rewards, detract too much of your attention away from your main project(s). That's what the patrons are there for, after all! Anything else is just extra.

I'm glad if any of this was helpful!
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I wish I enjoyed drawing! It's nice to finish, but these days I have such low motivation for it. A big part of it is not knowing what to draw, though, so I might experiment with what you suggested in private to see if it could rekindle my interest. I'd rather spend downtime doing that than watching pointless videos, and if eventually other people could get something out of it too, great!
4
NewXmad5~4Y
[LINK]

Long story short I love their games and they're I wanna say on the same quality as you as a developer (or style since you both make 2D RPGs?)

They've had a patreon/community forum for a while and have had 3 successful kickstarter games with their most recent being their most successful.

[LINK]

[LINK]

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Tobias 1115~4Y
Thanks for linking to those; very interesting and useful to see! Their number of patrons isn't huge, but the amount they've got on Kickstarter really is, wow! If I could get that kind of money, I'd definitely feel a whole lot more secure about this. I'll have to look more deeply into how they managed it.

Their games look more... 'standard' than mine, in that they appeal more to what gamers typically go for in terms of gameplay features and overall visual and narrative style. The stuff I make is more eccentric. The highest-earning Kickstarter also has a much higher quality of art, though it looks like there's a full team working on it, which isn't the case for anything I'll make.

Even the fairly basic-looking project got $20,000 though, so that gives me hope. As does having my work compared to something like that! Maybe I do have a chance after all.
3
purplerabbits148~4Y
Maybe a patreon you could look at be the one for GeminiGamer. He's using the rpg maker engine to make games on Kongregate. He's gotten the #1 slot for the Kongregate contests quite frequently. I'm not sure if you count him as sucessfull, but he puts out a game about every month on average and is still going.

In terms of the paywall, I think its a pretty effective barrier. Seeing how Matt Rozsak, the EBF guy, posted this tweet [LINK]
If someone is that resentful to pay to harass you, isn't that a win for you since they lose money and you have the power to kick them, because It'd be more worthwhile to keep the unpleasant company away from the nicer fans who'd also not want to be around the unpleasant company.

In terms of how to present yourself, there's really no one magic formula, different people do as what fits for them, if being too profession makes it seem like a cold fish , then have the human element to it. Because people will come to those that are like them subconsiously, it would probably help to put out what appeals to you.

4
Tobias 1115~4Y
Do you have a link to that person's Patreon? It's interesting that people still make content for Kongregate, or use RPG Maker; they feel so like things I've personally moved on from that it just feels strange to me! I wonder if he gets much money from that. Putting a game out a month seems insane to me!

Interesting that he speaks of being sheltered on Steam; that actually gives me some hope of not having to deal with abuse! I suppose with no barrier to entry, you do get a lot more of that... Maybe my days of having to deal with it are over? I certainly don't intend to release anything for free again.

And that's true about attracting like minds!
4
purplerabbits148~4Y
Ah right here's his patreon [LINK]

Its actually pretty hard to qualify whether he is as seen as successful, since he is rather sparce for details like on his twitter @Medieval_Cop

Yeah It really is an insane pace for games. Though they are "short" so that could account for the speed.

Well in all platforms, there will be some detractors, but with a paywall there will be a huge decrease in types of hate. Though I'm very sure that the fighunter days of abuse will probably not happen again.

2
Dingding32167~4Y
In terms of maintaining a community, you could have a disclaimer saying you're mostly not active on there but it's a like-minded group of (potentially more experienced) people who chat and voluntarily help out players that might be struggling in areas of the game or want to know more. You could pop in and out as you wished but have no express obligation to (especially since you always have the excuse of "trying to work on a new game" or something important to them)! And yes as other comments have said, paywall is generally quite effective-- I read an article about paid games ages ago which said that paying actually benefits both the developer and the players, since the players that do decide to invest in the game are more likely to be engaged with it, instead of just consuming mindlessly. I can't find the precise page any more but just more thoughts to add to the collective pool of second-hand wisdom so far!
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Tobias 1115~4Y
Interesting how you describe a hypothetical community as being about help playing the game; I'd actually been imagining it more about discussing a game-to-be, like on this blog, so I hadn't even thought about it that way!

I actually quite like the thought of having a little community to discuss ideas with; it's certainly valuable on this blog. The only thing that bothers me about Discord is the feeling that it's 'always on', that I could be disturbed by messages or drama when I'm supposed to be working rather than just dropping in a couple of times a day.
2
Dingding32167~4Y
It's certainly possible not to have Discord on all the time, I only ever drop in online (without any apps or downloads etc), so that might help your worries on that front :)
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I suppose it's different if you're the admin though, since whenever there are any concerns, they come to you. I'm still haunted by the Fig Hunter days, where sometimes trolling or hacking happened if I was asleep so I was scared to even go to bed. If I were just a member, I wouldn't have any worries!

I've only ever used the phone app, which feels quite claustrophobic to me. Maybe I'd feel very differently about it if I used it on my PC!
2
Dingding32167~4Y
It's sad to hear that they stooped to such levels to be mean to others, I'm sorry that it happened to you and has understandably affected your perception and perspective for such a long time. I obviously can't make any promises about the future, but it does sound like this is unlikely to happen with a paid subscription to a closed Discord group, and you're obviously considering potential ideas carefully.
2
codyfun12329~4Y
I've felt the same way about the phone app. I use the desktop version all the time without any such feelings.
1
MontyCallay101~4Y
Now that's what I'm talking about! Great that you were able to take the time and keep a positive attitude while looking into this unfamiliar territory. It's actually really cool that you've have a coping mechanism that works for you like keeping this blog!

I like your ideas for Patreon ranks! I also think the additional ideas added by Falcon are really good as well, since that is the sort of thing I've seen fairly often.

I really agree with a lot of what you've written here! Yes, there's a lot of obscure and unsuccessful Patreon accounts/kickstarters - though those are probably run by people as a side-project as opposed to seeking to make a living that way - but you already have something you can build on, and interesting stories to tell!

I'm actually fairly certain having a paid discord would in fact reduce (if not eliminate) trolling, especially considering that anyone would be a lot less anonymous after having given you and Patreon their payment details. I don't think that should be the main worry, in any case. You wouldn't even have to feel "beholden" to anyone, just have a simple set of rules ("Don't be an arse", etc.) and maybe a moderator or two to help with that sort of thing. I suppose it's more about overcoming the anxiety and discomfort associated with running a community again. As has been pointed out before, the type of person that follows you now and is interested in your projects is most likely very different from than your average overly-argumentative Fighunter user.

Anyway, keep it up! I look forward to seeing what you can come up with :)
4
Tobias 1115~4Y
Baby steps!!

I actually like the idea of a small community of people dedicated enough to pay, the more I think about it... I'm just concerned about it feeling like I can never drop out of it for days at a time due to depression, like I can never take a break... I don't want to disappoint people (again).
3
xXDivineDreamerXx12~4Y
Idk about the Discord. Is that something you would want? I get the impression that you like the blog format more.

What if you had things like,
Silver - "voting rights for one of the levels or features in a game"
Gold - "a custom wallpaper of a scene from a game of your choice"

or stuff like that. I think those things would be interesting, but also be more your style! Those Patreon accounts are successful, but you don't have to follow then. (Also, realistically, I just think that managing a promoting a Discord channel would be really draining)
4
Tobias 1115~4Y
I do prefer the blog format, but Discord seems to be what everyone's doing so maybe it's expected if you want to succeed. I'm still researching, trying to decide!
2
JohnnyBoi45~4Y
Ok, here's some of my take:

One common thread I see between most of the patreon pages you shared is either quick releases of small games or a game already out that has continuous updates. Another thing I noticed (perhaps similarly to you) is that I found way more (and more successful) patreons for video/podcast creators aka people making consistently released content. Divine Dreams is very much a singular product that is coming at an undefined later date. I think if I were going the patreon route as you are I would try and include tiers of reward for cumulative lifetime donations (one of the links you had included that, I forget which). For example, donate a cumulative $20 and get the game for free on release (just example numbers). It might hard to sell people on a subscription model when the product isn't coming for a long time. Also, I would recommend standardizing the tier prices to something like 3/5/10 - I get the 3/6/12 but 5/10, though slightly less, seems much more reasonable.

One last thing - that I'm pretty sure you aren't gonna like, but is worth saying - a lot of successful kickstarters seem to have high level donation rewards that include having some input on game design, mostly small stuff like an NPC or something, but sometimes an actual gameplay thing like a boss. If you make a kickstarter for this and it takes off, that could be a good way to get some people with money to burn to invest in this.
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I can see how Patreon would be better for regular content producers, while Kickstarter's likely better for creators who only release one big thing every year or two. Someone else linked to the Patreon and Kickstarters of an indie team, where the Patreon had 111 patrons but the most successful Kickstarter got over $200,000. That's quite a difference! So perhaps Kickstarter is my best bet; even getting $10,000 on there would feel like enough to me, for a start.

I actually like the idea of using people's suggestions for things like monsters, as it'd be a nice thing for them to feel their investment was worthwhile, plus it'd save me from coming up with all the ideas myself! I feel like monsters might be more interesting than NPCs, but it's something to look into further.

I've been thinking about how I'll be structuring Divine Dreams: as a trilogy of three Chapters, each with six Episodes. Perhaps the Kickstarter would be for funding the Chapter as a whole, while Patreon patrons could get access to the Episodes as they're completed, with their feedback guiding their final integration into the whole? Or something; I'm thinking about it!
2
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