Alora Fane

I don't follow anyone on Twitter, but I should start following some other indie devs so I feel less alone in walking this path! Any suggestions?

I haven't written a personal post in almost a month! I keep thinking of things I want to write about, but lack the time or energy.

I spent a couple of hours this morning rereading some old blog posts here, seeing how far I have or haven't come. A lot of themes repeat over the months. One is wanting to become more connected to - or at least aware of - other indie devs or the general indie dev community (if there even is one), since I've been doing this in a bubble for ages. Seems I write posts about it and then nothing actually happens though. I just get distracted and forget about it until I say the same thing a few months later.

Some things do eventually end up happening though!! I talked anxiously about setting up Patreon or a Discord server, and they manifested eventually... months later. Sort of. I still need to do some stuff to finalise the Discord server before making it public. I'll get there eventually!!

One of the things I talked about but haven't done yet is basically making a kind of list of other people on a similar path to me, perhaps in their own bubbles. Indie devs working on some project for months with the hopes of eventually releasing on Steam.

I wanted to spend this weekend scouring through indie dev subreddits, making a note of people I see and what they're doing, but I got caught up making the Atonal Dreams info page I talked about in the other post, and now it's Sunday night and I'm tired, so eh... Maybe next weekend.

Something I would like to do though is start following a few indie devs on Twitter. I technically use Twitter in the sense that I tweet things every so often, but they don't exactly get much attention, and I don't follow anyone else or like or comment on their posts. I've been wanting to change that for ages, but feel more awkward about following one or two people than I do about zero, so I want to add a bunch at once.

So do you know any indie devs who are on a similar path to me who I could maybe follow? Ideally solo devs who haven't made it huge, so not people like Toby Fox who everyone's heard of. People I could feel "we're in this together!" about rather than feeling completely inferior to.

Or if you want me to follow you on Twitter, let me know, and I'll probably do that too! (What do people even post on there? Political opinions and memes? I'm not exactly interested in either of those things, so I likely wouldn't engage with posts like those.)

I don't particularly want to engage with social media, but I'm very aware that the numbers I use to gauge interest in what I'm doing (number of likes on tweets, view counts on these posts) have been dropping for a while, and I'll need for people to be aware Atonal Dreams is a thing if there's any hope of it earning enough money to pay the basic bills.

I need to look on Reddit too - as I've been saying for ages - but maybe I'll do that next weekend. For now, following a few people is a start, at least!

13 COMMENTS

TheJop32~4Y

I was actually just looking at a page with a lot of indie game developers' twitter accounts: [LINK]

If you scroll to the bottom, there's a segment about what Flash meant to them and social media links. You could also add something yourself since MARDEK was pretty notable in reach and scale for a Flash RPG. Many of them are still making games and have their own websites, so you might get more of an insight into the whole indie dev world, especially since they also started with Flash games.

Tobias 1115~4Y

That's certainly an interesting read, so thanks for linking to it!!

It put some things into perspective a bit, though. There's a bit where a bunch of Flash games are named in the background, and I spent a while searching for MARDEK (of course), and saw a bunch of things like "Torture Bill Gates", "Virtual Nipple Twist", "Porn Sex XXX 18+", four Epic Battle Fantasies, and both Sonny 1 and 2, but I didn't see MARDEK at all!

I also looked for it in the circles bit, and I found MARDEK 2, which had only a tiny, insignificant circle. Misleading, though, I suppose, since that was MARDEK 2, and I never released MARDEK 3 on Newgrounds (for no good reason) which is all that covers.

I'll need to spend some time reading through the bits at the bottom. I'd happily add my own bit, but I don't see a way to do that; maybe they only add people they went out of their way to contact? Are all of those games particularly noteworthy though? I've not heard of most of them.

It's sad, though, thinking how much of a creative explosion the Flash scene was, due to the low barrier to entry and they way in which those games were distributed. Getting anything noticed these days is such a huge challenge by comparison.

That's certainly an interesting read, so thanks for linking to it!!

It put some things into perspective a bit, though. There's a bit where a bunch of Flash games are named in the background, and I spent a while searching for MARDEK (of course), and saw a bunch of things like "Torture Bill Gates", "Virtual Nipple Twist", "Porn Sex XXX 18+", /four/ Epic Battle Fantasies, and both Sonny 1 and 2, but I didn't see MARDEK at all!

I also looked for it in the circles bit, and I found MARDEK 2, which had only a tiny, insignificant circle. Misleading, though, I suppose, since that was MARDEK 2, and I never released MARDEK 3 on Newgrounds (for no good reason) which is all that covers.

I'll need to spend some time reading through the bits at the bottom. I'd happily add my own bit, but I don't see a way to do that; maybe they only add people they went out of their way to contact? Are all of those games particularly noteworthy though? I've not heard of most of them.

It's sad, though, thinking how much of a creative explosion the Flash scene was, due to the low barrier to entry and they way in which those games were distributed. Getting anything noticed these days is such a huge challenge by comparison.

TheJop32~4Y

You're welcome! It is pretty skewed since Newgrounds was a lot more deviant in its early days than other sites like Armor Games, Kongregate, or Miniclip, and a lot of games were much more popular on other sites. MARDEK has been played over 7 million times on Kongregate alone for example, so the circle isn't really an accurate representation of its impact.

You could probably reach out to the creator of the page to add your own bit; he also linked to his Twitter account: [LINK]

I've heard of a lot of the games, but then again I spent most of my time back in the day playing Flash games instead of developing them so I was exposed to a lot of games. I definitely agree Flash gave rise to a lot of creativity since it had such a low barrier to entry and it's a shame new voices are much more easily drowned out these days. That led to a lot of games that would probably never get released today, like some of the ones you mentioned, but it also gave creative voices to developers like Edmund McMillen, The Behemoth, Terry Cavanugh, etc. who saw a lot of success when they added their games to Steam. I'm hoping you see the same success!

You could probably reach out to the creator of the page to add your own bit; he also linked to his Twitter account: https://twitter.com/JGamesCh

I've heard of a lot of the games, but then again I spent most of my time back in the day playing Flash games instead of developing them so I was exposed to a lot of games. I definitely agree Flash gave rise to a lot of creativity since it had such a low barrier to entry and it's a shame new voices are much more easily drowned out these days. That led to a lot of games that would probably never get released today, like some of the ones you mentioned, but it also gave creative voices to developers like Edmund McMillen, The Behemoth, Terry Cavanugh, etc. who saw a lot of success when they added their games to Steam. I'm hoping you see the same success!

Tama_Yoshi82~4Y

I've been thinking about what it even meant to network by following artists on social media. I think part of it is producing art in relation to their artistic bubble. I'm not sure how much that's a "thing," but artists get a lot of visibility within a specific community when making fan art for that community. Contract work is also something I see as not being a very strong engagement, but still a means of getting out there. I think sharing "artistic enthusiasm" could be a part of it, and it wouldn't have to be draining in the sense of having to endure social situations; it'd just be popping in to throw in a "look what I did!"

I would expect respected members of a community would be allowed to shout out their comments more, too.

kasheeste2133~4Y

Well... the question really is if you're looking to engage, promote or glean information. Imo the logical place to start would be the old flash rockstars (of which you by all rights are as well) because although they might not necessarily be your thing, odds are their fans have also encountered Mardek and may just need a little reminding you're still around.
Doing a little footwork for you, my other favorite flash games from the era were Urbs (mud n blood) [LINK] who also has a discord [LINK] of what I'd imagine would be comparable popularity to what you might expect if you want to poke around in there. He's an interesting fellow, who hasn't really taken a break from the whole flash development. I don't actually know what he does for a living, though as he has a rather intense dislike for steam to my knowledge his development has been almost strictly for donations and ad revenues.
Beyond that d-mah (caravaneer) fell off the face of the earth in 2014... apparently he's moved on and is making the next habbo hotel-esq game because the world needs more of those.
Garin (Monster's Den series) [LINK] might be of the most relevance to yourself...disappeared for about five years and then came back and kickstarted [LINK] his next game which did bring in 33k, it was delayed several times but ultimately released when it would appear it flopped on steam [LINK] . I'm going to go ahead and give my take, I did buy it upon release and its a flaming pile of crap... the game has literally come nowhere since the first iteration; same mechanics, same animation, same cheesy strategies but with a fancy new overland map that is straight out of a 80's MUD.

Well... the question really is if you're looking to engage, promote or glean information. Imo the logical place to start would be the old flash rockstars (of which you by all rights are as well)  because although they might not necessarily be your thing, odds are their fans have also encountered Mardek and may just need a little reminding you're still around. 
Doing a little footwork for you, my other favorite flash games from the era were Urbs (mud n blood) https://twitter.com/urban_prophet who also has a discord https://discord.com/invite/7kpSZGs  of what I'd imagine would be comparable popularity to what you might expect if you want to poke around in there. He's an interesting fellow, who hasn't really taken a break from the whole flash development. I don't actually know what he does for a living, though as he has a rather intense dislike for steam to my knowledge his development has been almost strictly for donations and ad revenues.  
Beyond that d-mah (caravaneer) fell off the face of the earth in 2014... apparently he's moved on and is making the next habbo hotel-esq game because the world needs more of those. 
Garin (Monster's Den series) https://twitter.com/monstersden might be of the most relevance to yourself...disappeared for about five years and then came back and kickstarted https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/garin/monsters-den-godfall-a-turn-based-dungeon-crawling his next game which did bring in 33k, it was delayed several times but ultimately released when it would appear it flopped on steam https://steamcharts.com/app/469720 . I'm going to go ahead and give my take, I did buy it upon release and its a flaming pile of crap... the game has literally come nowhere since the first iteration; same mechanics, same animation, same cheesy strategies but with a fancy new overland map that is straight out of a 80's MUD.

Tobias 1115~4Y

Some interesting things there!

I've never heard of Urbzz, and I notice that his Twitter has significantly less attention than my own! I'd been feeling bad that my tweets only get around 20 views, but that seems a lot, comparatively. Hmm.

I haven't checked his discord yet, but I did check his website, and I wonder if it's one that's been kept running for years? Feels like if someone visited Fig Hunter now if I'd still kept that going.

I have heard of Monster's Den; wasn't it top place in the RPGs section of Kongregate for years? Something like that. Interesting that he was able to get that much on Kickstarter, though that's in AUD, which is around £18k GBP. Still a decent amount though. I'll have to study that when I find the time.

I wonder though whether things like that succeed because they've changed so little from their original incarnations? So people are getting exactly what they're familiar with from years ago.

The game has almost 300 reviews, so I wonder whether it did well financially. It has been on there for three years though, so hmm.

So mostly what it seems old Flash people are doing is trying to rekindle the flames of the past? I wonder how many stuck with indie games dev but moved beyond Flash like I have...

Some interesting things there!

I've never heard of Urbzz, and I notice that his Twitter has significantly less attention than my own! I'd been feeling bad that my tweets only get around 20 views, but that seems a lot, comparatively. Hmm.

I haven't checked his discord yet, but I did check his website, and I wonder if it's one that's been kept running for years? Feels like if someone visited Fig Hunter now if I'd still kept that going.

I have heard of Monster's Den; wasn't it top place in the RPGs section of Kongregate for years? Something like that. Interesting that he was able to get that much on Kickstarter, though that's in AUD, which is around £18k GBP. Still a decent amount though. I'll have to study that when I find the time.

I wonder though whether things like that succeed /because/ they've changed so little from their original incarnations? So people are getting exactly what they're familiar with from years ago.

The game has almost 300 reviews, so I wonder whether it did well financially. It has been on there for three years though, so hmm.

So mostly what it seems old Flash people are doing is trying to rekindle the flames of the past? I wonder how many stuck with indie games dev but moved beyond Flash like I have...

kasheeste2133~4Y

Well, I can't hardly speak from a position of knowledge of the topic but you inspired a trip of 2006-10ish nostalgia and those are just the folks with enough of an impact that I can remember they even exist a decade later. As far as I'm aware urbz's website is more or less the same as it was back in the day... I seem to recall it having issues and dying but twas rebuilt and for all intents and purposes I'm fairly certain its approximately as old as fighunter.
I'd say on the whole you are correct in the assessment that folks are trying to rekindle the flames of the past albiet in a different way from what I perceive the Mardek -> Atonal relationship (purely from a technical perspective) Mainly in that Atonal seems to be more of an actual improvement with better graphics, more complex mechanics and the like vs the other's approach of making the same exact same game only bigger. All in all, I believe if you can get the message out to people you'll be surprised by what you'll accomplish.

Well, I can't hardly speak from a position of knowledge of the topic but you inspired a trip of 2006-10ish nostalgia and those are just the folks with enough of an impact that I can remember they even exist a decade later.  As far as I'm aware urbz's website is more or less the same as it was back in the day... I seem to recall it having issues and dying but twas rebuilt and for all intents and purposes I'm fairly certain its approximately as old as fighunter. 
I'd say on the whole you are correct in the assessment that folks are trying to rekindle the flames of the past albiet in a different way from what I perceive the Mardek -> Atonal relationship (purely from a technical perspective) Mainly in that Atonal  seems to be more of an actual improvement with better graphics, more complex mechanics and the like vs the other's  approach of making the same exact same game only bigger. All in all, I believe if you can get the message out to people you'll be surprised by what you'll accomplish.

Dingding32167~4Y

This doesn't link directly to twitter but I just saw another old time Flash dev Nerdook post a link to his new game's beta and turns out he's using this company [LINK] to help publish. I thought it might be interesting to check it out even if you have no intention of signing a contract with them or anything just to know what's out there!

Tobias 1115~4Y

Interesting! I just (quickly) looked at their site, and they seem to have helped a lot of indie games get on consoles (also, I notice that a lot of games have extremely professional-/amazing-looking preview/promo image things even though their actual gameplay is a completely different quality; worth keeping in mind).

It'll be interesting to see how much it makes a difference in terms of earnings, though I wonder if Nerdook (whose name faintly rings memory bells, but can't remember anything he's made) would be open about that kind of stuff. I also wonder what it costs to use their services in the first place, though. I was contacted a while back (when I released Sindrel Song, maybe?) by a similar company who said they were very affordable because they only charge something like $300 an hour, which is obviously way more than I can afford!

Dingding32167~4Y

Nerdook released a lot of games regularly back in the day, including Vertical Drop Heroes, Dungeon Developer and Monster Slayer. Here is his old kongregate page [LINK] and his facebook [LINK] . I remember he was on hiatus because he was working, then had a baby! He's been porting and redeveloping his best old games as well as releasing some new ones. Worth a look to reference, he used to be very responsive to comments and replying to them so I definitely think he's a good target to try and reach out to.

Tobias 1115~4Y

He definitely seems to have a different approach to making games than I do. Seems more social, more about being involved with the community and making a lot of stuff quickly? So asking him might feel like someone who's trying to sell their abstract paintings asking for tips or promotion from someone who sells caricatures at parties, or something!

Even using Facebook instead of a personal site like this one seems to fit with that, plus I avoid Facebook for weird anxiety reasons so I can't even click that link! (I'm annoyed at myself for that...)

ThatDerp11~4Y

In terms of my suggestions: Matt Rozsak made the ebf series and is a pretty great guy too who would probably be willing to chat if you wanted to talk to him,

I'll probably tweet at you a few more. Would that be okay?

Tobias 1115~4Y

I actually had some contact with him (sort of) when I ported MARDEK to Steam a couple of months ago! I already see his tweets sometimes, but I'll definitely follow him when I get around to following other people.

I'll likely tweet myself asking for suggestions at some point over the weekend, so a reply to that would probably be the best place to suggest some to me!