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Marketing Questions I Need To Research
4 years ago - Edited 4 years ago1,122 words
I don't know enough about marketing an indie game, so Atonal Dreams is unlikely to succeed financially unless I learn more. I've written out a list of questions I don't know the answers to, which I'll spend the next week or two researching. Seems more directed than just fumbling around watching videos in the general area!

Before I get to the list, here's an in-development game I just found on Twitter: it's called ∞ Ephemeral Tale ∞, and it's an RPG which looks like a bunch of other indie RPGs I've seen and describes itself as "a classically inspired RPG for the modern age, featuring hand-crafted dungeons, classic JRPG-style combat, and a loot-driven progression system". ∞ The solo developer's website ∞ is spartan, and written in this professional "we", "the studio", etc way I'm not personally charmed by but which everyone else seems to do, and they describe this as their first game.

Currently it's been in Open Access on Steam since January, and has 9 reviews. I wonder if it's even reached 100 sales.

Would Atonal Dreams fare similarly? Or do I have advantages? It's tough to say. I've seen a bunch of indie RPGs which look pretty much the same as this, and its key features seem to be the sort of things you could find in any generic RPG; if there's a story, it's not even mentioned. Atonal Dreams at least has a relatively unique look, and unique combat mechanics, though maybe that's a harder sell due to the lack of familiarity, if people are just wanting a nostalgic experience. I'd like to think there might be a narrative draw, but that's harder to summarise or show in screenshots.

Notably, ∞ the developer's Twitter account ∞ has 567 followers, and their tweets get around 20-30 likes on average but sometimes around 80? They also ∞ present themselves in a way that's... not as I would ∞, but that's because ∞ I'm 'eccentric' ∞. I wonder if their way is more appealing to the mainstream?

I have 563 followers, so almost the same number as them, and my tweets get around that many likes or fewer; having made MARDEK hasn't exactly gained me attention on that platform.

I wish this person the best of luck and I hope this doesn't sound like I'm criticising them! I'd like to play their game and similar others when I can find the time. It's just really tough getting attention and money from indie games, so I use cases like this to show how pretty much everyone struggles with it, and that my situation is far from unique. Since this game has already been out for a few months, this gives an idea of the attention I could expect were I to release it now.

When I released Sindrel Song last December (or whenever it even was), I thought my previous reputation from making MARDEK - despite that being a decade earlier - was more than it was, and that it'd help the game sell even if I didn't put any effort into promotion. Many months later though, it still has fewer than 200 sales. It's definitely niche, and I probably set the price too high considering it's not familiar enough to warrant it, but surely the primary factor was just that I didn't do any marketing.

I hoped porting MARDEK to Steam would earn my newer projects some attention, since they're in a similar spirit, but I feel like I'm getting even fewer eyes on my work now than when I released Sindrel Song. Maybe it'd get more sales anyway from people who are interested but not following me actively, but that's little psychological reassurance because it's hypothetical and invisible.

But anyway. I've talked about all this a bunch of times before, and if you're one of the few who read this blog, you probably know it all already. Let's get to the actual list of things I don't know!

I'll likely continue editing this over the coming days as new things come to mind. Here's what I can think of now:



How do I gain Twitter followers?

Is there a clear jump in attention on social media after releasing a playable demo?

Should I reach out to the press? Who? How? When? Are presskits worth the effort of setting one up? Do press articles increase attention in a statistically significant way?

Is it worth doing Early Access?

At what point should I do a demo?

Are there benefits to using a publisher?

Which publishers would be interested in a game like Atonal Dreams?

What would it cost to use a publisher? Can I even afford it?

How do self-publishing indie devs typically get the word out about their game?

Which indiedev-related Twitter hashtags are most effective/popular?

What are some other indie RPGs currently in production? How much traction are they gaining? What have they done to get eyes on them?

Is it worth posting on Reddit? Where? How frequently, or at what stage of production?

Do Youtube devlogs make a difference to eventual sales? How many views do these usually get? How long would it take me to make one?

Is it worth doing a Kickstarter campaign? Would that be a good idea? What do Kickstarter campaigns require to succeed?



I wrote this on Monday, but I've been feeling really BLEH all week - ∞ anhedonia ∞ and insomnia have been big, annoying things - and I haven't even attempted to research any of these yet. I think I'm just going to spend the rest of the week working on another project, which I might also write about soon so to gauge whether anyone would even be remotely interested in it. I suppose one of the few good things about this unreliable self-employed path is that I can take time off when I need it rather than pushing myself to breaking point because I'm forced to come in every day.

Oh, I'm also in the process of playing UNDERTALE, after avoiding that for literally years! That's quite mentally taxing too since I'm taking a ton of notes about what I like or don't, since it's not a million miles away from what I've been trying to do myself but was obviously slightly more successful. Just a little bit. I'll post my notes when I'm finished, whenever that might be.

If you have anything to share that could help me answer any of these questions, I'd greatly appreciate that! Otherwise I'll get around to researching them when I can.

6 COMMENTS

purplerabbits148~4Y
How do I gain Twitter followers?

Honestly I have no idea, I rarely post and I mostly retweet things and I gain a follower every 2 months on average.

Is there a clear jump in attention on social media after releasing a playable demo?

I'd say yes. With a demo you give something that is sharable and give the players something directly that they can form their own opinions from, which is far different from seeing development posts.

Again I bring up YandereDev, even after his terrible demo, there are a lot more eyes on his project now for a long time,(mostly videos talking about how much the demo is a buggy mess, but still it is attention.)

The other example I could think of would be Undertale.

Should I reach out to the press? Who? How? When? Are presskits worth the effort of setting one up? Do press articles increase attention in a statistically significant way?

I have no idea. I am in the story development phase of my own game and the mechanics are still a hazy idea, so I am not even thinking about how to get it out yet.

Is it worth doing Early Access?

I'd say it depends on the game. Recently via word of mouth, I've been hearing people receomend the game Hades. A game that was in Early Access since December of 2018 and just been officially released September 17, 2020. I've seen some artists talk about the character designs for a long time on twitter so that game has been in my peripheral for a bit before it's official release.

At what point should I do a demo?

I'd say when you can accurately portray what the feel of the game will be when released.

Again with the examples being Yandere Simulator and Undertale.

Yandere Simulator really rushed out a "demo" that's better described as a play test build. There are so many bugs, that he is still pushing out bug fixes. There's even stuff from a test character that's still in the "demo" when they really shouldn't be there for the demo.

Undertale on the otherhand put out a ademo that captures the feel of the game so that it gave a taste of what the whole game is like.

Are there benefits to using a publisher?

I have no idea all I know came from reading your blogs.

Which publishers would be interested in a game like Atonal Dreams?

Again, I dont know.

What would it cost to use a publisher? Can I even afford it?

Again, I dont know.

How do self-publishing indie devs typically get the word out about their game?

I can only guess since I play video games, I think for the huge success needed for sustainability, there needs to be a moment of virality so that you get that boost in numbers. However, the hard part comes after where you need to keep that audience. Because once you get that spark of virality, you have been given an opportunity that has a time limit. Once the viral spark is gone you have to get another going. Kinda like now where the virality of MARDEK has definitly fizzled and those of us that remain aren't enough to sustain you.

If you do manage to keep a large enough following you'll need to essentially operant condition them so that they'll stick around for the inevitable long wait times it takes for a game to develop.

Which indiedev-related Twitter hashtags are most effective/popular?

I'm not sure. I only really follow you and Matt Rosak as game devs.

What are some other indie RPGs currently in production? How much traction are they gaining? What have they done to get eyes on them?

I guess the most recent release I can think of would be Hades an action rouge-like rpg that's just been released. I known about it for a while when doing research for developing my own game this year. (Using Greek mythology as an inspration) I'd say that there's a bit of traction since Philip DeFranco recomended the game in his Today in Awesome section of his show. I've also seen someone recommend the game on discord. I do not know what they have done as promotion, but I do know that it was in Early Access starting in December 2018.

Is it worth posting on Reddit? Where? How frequently, or at what stage of production?

I don't know about reddit, since from it's reputation and from a friend's own interaction, the people there can be the worst and be the best. You can find the people who are just assholes because of anonymity and you can find people that are so supportive and go above and beyond for others.

Do Youtube devlogs make a difference to eventual sales? How many views do these usually get? How long would it take me to make one?

I have no idea, since I mostly watch lets players and find out that a game is a demo.

The only one I know of that does any sort of open updates would be YandereDev though he is unique in that his PR is so bad that most of his comments are suspiciohsly supportive while there are so many videos "exposing" him and tearing apart the game's code for being spaghetti code.

Is it worth doing a Kickstarter campaign? Would that be a good idea? What do Kickstarter campaigns require to succeed?

For kickstarters, the has to be a workable demo and maybe a trailer. The example for a game that went the kickstarter route and succeeded would be Undertale again.

Another example would be Shovel Knight where it far surpassed its goals that they are still working on fufilling pledge goals. One of the best games out there for platformers

There is a thing that's called an overfunded kickstarter where so many people are excited fro a game that the goal has far exceeded the pledge goals and the product is mediocre as a result of expectation. An example would be Mighty No. Nine, a Mega Man inspired game

With YandereDev his trailer of the demo had a lot of mentions about the kickstarter reaching its goals leading to more features. However he already has a patreon that has given him $300k throughout the 6 years its been in development, and he's averaging $2500 per month currently. Taking into consideration the stuff he spends the money on (bought 2 nintendo switches on a whim becausw he doesn't like the island the first switch for Animal Crossing gave him) , the people are very skeptical and feeling very negative about giving to the kickstarter, which currently hasn't been started yet.

So yeah as long as you don't do what YandereDev is doing you should have a better reputation and a far less stressful time with promotion.


I hope that my answers helped.
Good job of facing Undertale. I look forward to your opinions
3
Natrythe4th10~4Y
Personally I don’t have enough time to play early-access; most games I play once and I’d rather it be in a polished state. If you try early-access I’d still buy immediately to support you and then wait until later.

The question of kickstarter isn’t whether you succeed, but how high to set success. I’ve seen absolutely terrible looking games get funded because they put their goal as $10 or whatever. I think new pledges might decrease once the goal is met, so it’s a gamble between making more money or ensuring you’re funded. You have a lot of good points to encourage pledges: experience with making games, a wide range of game design skills that means your project won’t fail if you don’t hire someone else, and a planned working demo which you definitely should release at the same time if you do run a kickstarter campaign. It’s basically free advertising and you can get a decent cash advance if you guess right.

Honestly though, since this is meant to be a short game developmentwise, you could get away with lowballing your funding goal to ensure success. With you doing the game yourself and living expenses assumedly not in dire straits, there’s not much surplus cash could do to improve your game other than hiring a decent producer and maybe some translators.
4
Jack252~4Y
I would suggest that you can also try releasing your games on a different platforms like gog.com. Though it does not have as many games as steam, but gog has a great deal of good old drm free games from the past. A vast numbers of indie games are also avalaible in the platform and your game, "Mardek" also fits on that good old games genre perhaps.

There are also other ways to earn like kickstarter & gofundme to make sure that you will have enough exposure before your games are released. Although I don't know much about the terms and conditions on how to run a kickstarter campaign but i'm sure you'll find plenty of people to support you there.

2
Tobias 1115~4Y
I'll definitely be looking into releasing on multiple platforms in future; one of the questions I should have added here (but forgot) is what those platforms are, what kind of effort is involved on publishing on them, and whether it'd be worthwhile. If it'd take weeks to port to one and it'd earn pennies in the end, it wouldn't be worth it, but it'd be a different story if I could port to several in a day and double my income or more!

I've been wondering about Kickstarter for months, which is why it's one of the questions here, but I'm also unsure of whether the gain would be worth the effort. You have to devote yourself to a campaign wholeheartedly for a month at least, and even then it might not work out. So it's something I need to think about before diving in naively.
2
Jack252~4Y
Starting a kickstarter or gofundme campaign would be a great option only if you can spare an extra time for advertisements, publishing, publicizing, etc which would be challenging if you still have a developing community. It's true that you really need a month at least for preparation but major campaigns would take more than a few months to be recognised by kickstarter campaign supporters or gofunders since there are lots of fundraising campaigns to begin with and it's really daring to have compete with them at the same time.

Although i'm not an expert nor good at fundraisers but I think having a growing community of loyal supporters to help you out us really necessary to have a successful campaign. Btw if you have a patreon, it's surefire another way of raising funds for your projects since most indie game developers also use patreon to get the support they need.

I've read your blog it's true aging has really took a toll for most of us not unlike when we were young where there are a lot of opportunities to risk but as we get older we became wise to calculate risk so that our bright future would deem to exist. Fundrasing campaigns would give indie users a chance to earn extra funds for their projects but I don't like the idea of relying on crowd raised funds as a source of income alone. Starting kickstarter campaigns really should be planned very carefully.
1
LevProtter42~4Y
I've managed to solve pretty much all my insomnia issues. It's one the main things keeping me sane.
A good understanding of sleep cycle duration, and sleep inertia really helped me.
Sleep inertia can make you go back to sleep for a short/long period right after waking up, it's basically a nap, and will amplify any natural insomnia you experience. That in turn will make the habit more likely, and the cycle self perpetuates.
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