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Creativity & Depression; Old Games on itch.io?
4 years ago - Edited 4 years ago906 words
CreativityDepressionInteresting Mental IllnessOld GamesOpennessPsychology
Most highly creative people struggle with depression to some degree, and I read an article about that which I wanted to mention here. Unrelatedly, maybe I could sell my old, unfinished games on itch.io? Do you know anything about it?

It's a new week, and I'm struggling once again to push my way through the dark mental fog... I did very little last week and don't really want this week to be wasted as well. I'm not exactly off to a good start though...

While procrastinating, I came across ∞ this interesting article about the connection between creativity and mood disorders ∞. It talks about a book (which I should read) written by a psychiatrist/neuroscientist - Nancy Andreasen - who studied this connection, and who found that most great creators did have some experience with mental illness, particularly mood disorders such as depression. Rather than being 'tortured geniuses' who created because of this exactly, it's more that they were able to create despite it. That is, they weren't creative when they were deep in the depression - how could they be? - but spun what they found in those mental caves into tapestries once they resurfaced.

The whole article is very interesting to me since creativity and psychology are the most fascinating things in the world to me. Plus it's always reassuring, I suppose, whenever I hear that others walking not-entirely-dissimilar paths to me have encountered similar obstacles. I found this quoted paragraph from the book particularly interesting:

Many personality characteristics of creative people … make them more vulnerable, including openness to new experiences, a tolerance for ambiguity, and an approach to life and the world that is relatively free of preconceptions. This flexibility permits them to perceive things in a fresh and novel way, which is an important basis for creativity. But it also means that their inner world is complex, ambiguous, and filled with shades of gray rather than black and white. It is a world filled with many questions and few easy answers. While less creative people can quickly respond to situations based on what they have been told by people in authority — parents, teachers, pastors, rabbis, or priests — the creative person lives in a more fluid and nebulous world. He or she may have to confront criticism or rejection for being too questioning, or too unconventional. Such traits can lead to feelings of depression or social alienation. A highly original person may seem odd or strange to others. Too much openness means living on the edge. Sometimes the person may drop over the edge… into depression, mania, or perhaps schizophrenia.


It resonates with recent mental activity because my high trait Openness - which creativity either is or is at least tightly associated with - does seem to give me an unusual shades-of-grey impression of the current political landscape. And I'm constantly worried about facing criticism because my approach might be an unconventional one. That of course plays with all the anxiety-based fears of judgement - exacerbated by past judgements I have indeed faced - and leads to worrying openly a lot about things like the sexual objectification stuff recently.

Another quote from the book says:

One point of view … is that gifted people are in fact supernormal or superior in many ways. My writers certainly were. They were charming, fun, articulate, and disciplined.


Ha. I wish!

Maybe you have to be both creative and those things to be notable enough to write articles and books about.

Also, whenever I read about these ~great authors~ who wrote these lauded classics, I wonder whether what I'm making could ever be remotely compared, or whether anything in the video games domain would just be dumped in the pulp bin. I imagine everyone reading this would agree that at least some games are art, but I wonder if they'd be seen as such by the sorts of people who think so highly of these literary geniuses. And even if those people did see some great games that way, would anyone see mine that way? Not the old stuff, but the newer things I've not yet released. Makes me wonder how many people out there are creating amazingly unconventional things and just never getting noticed, though.

I mostly just wanted to write a post about that, but since I feel it's not massively interesting to people who aren't me, I'll add another bit related to the post this one will be replacing on the front page.



In that post, I talked about wanting to re-release old games in some form, but wasn't sure how. I'm still not sure!

But I'm aware that ∞ itch.io ∞ allows developers to easily upload their games and assign prices to them, so maybe that's an option? It's certainly much easier than Steam.

My only concern is how worthwhile it'd even be; maybe itch.io is just way too small?

Though it's not like they're going to be highly-in-demand games anyway, so maybe that's the best path forward.

It'll take time though. So if I'm completely unable to focus on Atonal Dreams this week, but have enough energy for this, I might give it a try. I don't need to upload everything at once; maybe I could start with Clarence's Big Chance or something.

Do you know anything about itch.io? Have you used it?

16 COMMENTS

AnotherrandomComrade4~4Y
I myself have never used Itch.io, but I do know about it.

I prefer to buy my games trough Steam. I do use other platforms but I try to keep it tot an absolute minimum.

And If you do go the way of publishing Clarence's Big Chance on Steam I will most certainly buy it.

And I do think that Videogames are an form of Art. You can combine many aspects of Art in one game. (Music, Story and graphics)
Some of my ''best'' memories are from playing specific videogames.

And again I wish you the strenght too fight against the dark mental fog /demons in your head.
3
Falcon64~4Y
While I haven't read the entire article, the parts you've quoted seem to imply that "creative" people are somehow "better" than all the "normal people", who are blind and can't think for themselves... which honestly sounds rather bigoted and very far from reality. It's easy to perceive others as one-dimensional, but humans in general tend to have complex internal landscapes, and many people struggle to make sense of the world and find their place in it—regardless of any talents they might possess or not.

About 'literary geniuses': many of them were not perceived as geniuses during their lifetimes! Only long after their death did people start considering their works exemplary masterpieces of their periods, and trend-setters for future works. Video games are a *very* recent medium and it will likely take decades for them to be considered a mainstream one which allows for artistic expression; TV and movies were perceived similarly when the technology first came out. That is not to say that video games can't ever be considered art at the moment; it's just still considered a niche medium for this purpose, with limited exposure.

I wanted to say the things above, but I'm afraid I know nothing about itch.io, so can't really contribute to the main questions you posed in this post. D:
0
Tobias 1115~4Y
I wouldn't have studied psychology if I didn't believe that all minds were complex, but a look at the world around us shows some people's thoughts are sharper, more original, and more nuanced than others, just as some people are taller, faster, or more compassionate than others. We're not all mentally equal, unpleasant a thought as it might be. That doesn't mean we don't have equal intrinsic value, though.

But now I'm worrying whether sharing this thing that resonated with my experience is just another thing that makes me look bad in the eyes of others...
3
Falcon64~4Y
Of course people are different and have different intrinsic talents! All I took issue with was the article's apparent claim that 'non-creative' people can't think for themselves. Don't worry, it definitely didn't make me think worse of you.
1
mount201046~4Y
I wonder to what extent is creativity linked to mental illness... Perhaps it's the other way around; where creative people are said to have mental illness due to seeing "more" (deeper? significant?) things in the world than the normal person. Perhaps it's why we experience anxiety; we see more risks in certain things than others, because we can imagine them.

Perhaps the trauma that comes along with being different and being ostracized creates the "true art is angsty" thing, as well...
1
Spectre35~4Y
Some people are stronger, faster, better or in this case more creative than the others. This is the reality, get over it.
0
Maniafig222~4Y
I do wonder sometimes whether depression is getting more commonplace nowadays, since I see so many people struggle with it online, or whether social media's just given people a platform to talk about their mental issues more, making it more visible.

Though 2020 is a bit of an exceptional case what with Corona and all, but I've been noticing that trend for years now.

"Sometimes the person may drop over the edge… into depression, mania, or perhaps schizophrenia."

Yeah, I've those starving artists dropping into me all the time. Like, literally it's raining artists and whatnot. Meteorologists hate it.

I've never been sure where to put myself on the openness scale, I feel like I'd score pretty well in some of the areas it covers but poorly in others. Does having the same haircut for like over a decade really indicate more about openness than stuff like fantasizing about creative works? How much weight should be applied to different factors?

Is making a licensed game based heavily on a personally comfortable, already existing property more indicative of openness or lack of openness?!

I suppose the typical person one'd imagine as a great appreciator for classic literature is this snobbish figure who views games as purely profits-driven low art, or whatever. But then how much appreciation does the average person who thinks games are art have for the classics? I know I regarded literature in high school with disregard, and I don't seem to be alone in that. Not that I'd dispute that they're not art, of course.

I've used itch.io mostly to download mods and other extensions for already existing games, though nowadays that sort of stuff is also handled through the Steam Mod Shop.

There was also that gigantic Racial Justice Bundle, which probably put itch.io on the map, since it raised several millions of dollars. It's certainly bigger than something like Kartridge, and I also think the "pay how much you want" model is more normalized on itch.io than it is elsewhere.
2
MontyCallay101~4Y
There's a certain logic to the idea that those who experience the extremes of human emotion can become the most driven to express it and create great works! At the same time, what is interesting or unique is sadly not always what is popular.

I think we're well on the way to where video games will eventually be recognised as an artform in a similar way to which movies are - probably even within our lifetimes! Literature, of course, has a much longer history and a far greater tradition in that regard. I think you could even take a certain amount of pride that you're playing a part in pioneering art in a less conventional medium! As to how successful you'll be, only time will tell. At least you're holding yourself to high standards!

As to if you should release your older titles on itch.io - re-releasing older stuff on Steam instead might have the advantage of directing people to your newer works, but then again the MARDEK-Sindrel Song pipeline didn't work out so well!

I've used itch.io a few times and, really, I see more advantages than disadvantages for releasing these things there - fees are lower, documentation requirements and waiting times for you would probably be much shorter, and if someday you concluded that you'd also want to have these things on Steam, you could still release them there as well. Buying games on Itch is arguably easier than on Steam - you only have to provide your email, and you can download the games directly. There's also a client and you can make an account, though none of that is necessary. The only thing I could imagine would count against it was if fewer people would be willing to buy something from there, even if you linked them directly, due to them being less familiar with it than, say, Steam - but I'm not sure how significant that percentage would be and, again, you could upload it there as well someday, for whatever reason. So it's not a bad idea!
2
Dingding32167~4Y
I've used itch.io for specific games and developers but I find it hard to nagivate or find new quality content on. A lot of the games are also in beta or something and it's hard for me to sort out whether it's actually complete or not! Maybe that's just from my cursory experience with it, though. That said, I've come across some fabulous indie games and hidden gems (especially visual novels), they just are quite hidden! I think I used to find them there after Jayisgames recommendations (may they rest in peace). I see it as an accessible route/ tool for developers to release things on but would guess that it would be suboptimal for monetizing, unless you're just looking for donations though "pay what you want' or expansion packs, just because there's a lower expectation of payment compared to Steam.
1
Dingding32167~4Y
There's also Gamejolt, which seems at least better presented and higher quality on average. Not really used it myself though
1
phsc57~4Y
I made a comment on the last post about releasing your old games, and well, I am a big fan of your work and if I saw your games on Steam these days I am pretty sure I'd still be interested (probably for reasons that do not apply to everyone), but I don't really use itch.io, the only great game I really enjoyed which I found on itch.io was Deadbolt which is completely different from your kind of thing.
No friends of mine know or use itch.io either, many which probably could have an interest in your games, and some of them are into indie games and such, but maybe this is just a bubble and everybody else uses it?
Also, why not release on both itch.io and Steam?
And a small suggestion, this got to my head because of Deadbolt, the version of Deadbolt that is on itch.io is incomplete and just a part of the game, what about doing this with some of your work? probably too hard because of the old games and the fact you haven't really edited their code in years, and you probably should be quite rusty with ActionScript (maybe not because of the MARDEK Steam release?), but I think some kind of free-trial for some of your games could be amazing, but most of the ones I mentioned in the other comments are still playable, a bit hard to find, even old Deliverance versions are still playable and if you really look into it you can find them, and some other games that are even more obscure! exploring the internet to find your games was very interesting, and I know I am not the only one who did this, maybe release some content which you have never released so your fans can support you? I believe that, if people bought the MARDEK pdf and such, maybe they would also buy some of your unfinished older and maybe even bad games just because it is from who made games they really liked or like, what do you think?
1
Tobias 1115~4Y
I have no idea how well-known itch.io is, and hadn't heard about it until I saw other indie devs on Twitter talking about publishing there. Which they seem to do a lot! I get the impression it's for mostly low-quality indies or something?

If I were to put a game on Steam, I'd see it as entering the marketplace and hoping to earn a lot of sales from strangers. But if I put my old stuff on itch.io, I'd see it more like giving them a quiet little home where people could technically buy them following a link from this site - like with putting music on Bandcamp, as I said in my other comment - but I wouldn't really expect new players. That feels right to me since the games are so old and are only really likely to appeal to people who are fans of me as a creator, or who specifically remember those games and seek me out looking for them. I get emails from people like that occasionally ("can I get Deliverance anywhere? I loved that when I was little"), so it'd be nice to have an 'official' place to direct them to which doesn't mean digging around for some ripped copy floating around somewhere without my permission.
1
phsc57~4Y
Well, I think you should put them at most places as you could, not limiting yourself to Steam or itch.io, put your content everywhere you can! the more places the more people that might get to see your stuff, considering that those in my circles don't know itch.io says little compared to the enourmous market, but even if itch.io is for lower quality games, this works at your favor! a diamond in a pile of diamonds is just a diamond, but a diamond in a pile of coal is much more interesting, not saying that all of the stuff in itch.io is bad, but some of the stuff I've checked is not really what I consider good, I think this is all a great idea, I know that some of your deeper fans did save some of your older work and some of it is still accessible in quite easy ways if you have the knowledge, but it helps since not everybody has that!
I think the big deal for you to achieve success is making so people find out you exist, who you are, and what you do, doing this is hard, mostly considering your games are not for everybody and with time it seems this got a bit more extreme, but I think this is the key, propaganda, the best way to sell a product is to make sure people know about it, of course quality is important, but deep down, if you want to sell, it is kind of not, I was thinking to myself, how would I find a game? the games I have played lately have been either recommendations of friends, things I found upon searching quite a lot and ads (doesn't have to be the typical stuff!), I think you need to find the people that could be interested in your games, there is probably some quite small youtuber who would really like your work, getting someone like that to play your stuff would really help! I found some indie games like this and this also shows the game itself, makes it interesting, how or who? this is a question I cannot answer, I am unsure if someone ever told this to you.
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