I did a lot this week! I made two new monsters, came up with an idea - mementomes - that solves some uncertainties, and improved the Lore section!
Last week was largely lost to mental illness, so I'm glad to have been productive throughout this one!
I'm still working on the intro, which involves the generic-JRPG-protagonist version of Savitr joining Collie in her psychepelago. I'd been indecisive about how exactly Savitr would be introduced, though...
New Monsters
I decided that Collie would kill the Preyloot, then face a Monstrife in a standard encounter. It'd be too powerful to defeat by herself - that is, it represents the beast within her that she can't overcome (The Beast is already meant for this purpose, so this is kind of like a lesser version of that?) - so she slumps down when her HP gets low and says something to that effect. She's then healed from offscreen, and looks up to see who's rescued her. Seems fairly standard; I think I've seen stuff like this before, though I can't remember specific examples.
I made this Celestronaut monster a while back (3 months ago??) to give Savitr a healing skill, but that was a party-wide heal - to show Savitr's legendary strength - which felt like it'd work poorly for this particular scene. More fitting would be a single monster - or I suppose I should be calling them figmon since I've ostensibly decided on that name - that casts a single-target heal.
Celestronaut was based on an old design from Miasmon, though Celestronaut was the evolved form. The unevolved form was Celestyke, which I also reused in Taming Dreams:
I decided to rework that!
Now it's got the spectral tail that a bunch of other figmon have, and since Celestronaut is undead, I continued that with the black eyes that make it look like a cartoon ghost, plus they make it look more like a grey alien. The head thing was always meant to look like angel wings; now it looks like a halo too, plus the transparent glowing green adds a sci-fi/healing feel.
The wheel in the original was based on a halo, a hula hoop, and the depiction of angels in the Bible (which could very well have been attempts at describing alien encounters), which are said to have a wheel that follows them around everywhere. The Biblical angels' wheel is covered in 'eyes', so Celestot has eyes on its wheel (they're a recurring motif in the game anyway); six, equidistant, like the aster.
I changed the name to Celestot because tyke - which I thought back when I made Miasmon meant 'small child' - adds the connotation of being mischievous when applied to children, plus it can mean a mongrel dog or crude person. Hardly appropriate for an angelic thing! Tot seems more neutral (it also means a measure of alcohol, but that feels vastly unrelated).
It turned out better than expected, and I like it more than I thought I would considering it was added as a quick, unplanned decision!
It looks like a prevolution of Celestronaut, though, which makes me wonder whether I should include evolution in some capacity. Like maybe when skills reach a certain level, they evolve? But then would they all evolve? Because that's a lot more monsters to make! I'll need to give it some thought.
I also decided not too long ago that Savitr is renowned for his ability to tame figmon, so that mechanic should be introduced in this psychepelago section. For that, he'd need a taming skill, and since skills are figmon, that means a new figmon.
I'm unsure about it! It's based on the concept of a dove with an olive branch, an easily recognisable symbol of peace, combined with an archetypical angel, like you might get atop a Christmas tree. I wanted a name that combined something meaning 'peace' or 'to pacify' with 'dove', and I wanted to do something interesting with the olive branch in its beak...
After experimenting with names, I landed on Bridove, combining dove with bridle, as in the thing put on horses' heads to control them. I also transformed the olive branch into a bridle.
Conceptually, it makes sense since this figmon's purpose is to tame wild beasts, like bridles do for horses... but maybe it's too muddied? I asked on Patreon and Twitter what people thought it was even supposed to be, and the couple of people who replied on Twitter said it reminded them of Jesus, which it does for me too, especially what looks like a crown of thorns on its head. That'd suggest sacrifice, being a scapegoat, or maybe faith or something, though, none of which are appropriate for this design's purpose.
So I might need to change that name and tweak the design a bit!
Mementomes
Previously, I experimented with Savitr being introduced via a comic book about him, which I later changed to something more like a generic book. I thought maybe Collie could get some kind of book item from the Preyloot's chest, which would cause some monolith to open like a book, becoming a bridge to the next floating island, as a metaphor for narratives acting as portals to other worlds.
But when I recently solved movement-related issues by generating procedural collisions on edges, that meant that adding an object you could step off an edge and onto - but only if it was in a certain state - became very nontrivial. Hard to explain, I suppose!
I decided that maybe there could be big books that opened like portals, doors, which you'd step into to teleport elsewhere. That'd get around those issues, works better with the metaphor, and probably feels better to play too. So I did that!
I also thought that the Preyloot's chest could contain an actual book that comes up as a unique popup, with a 'microstory' in it about the Splendid Savitr. It means you're reading about him in books like Collie did originally, and it's a chance to write a silly 'microstory' that I hope might be fun to read.
Something a significant number of people liked about MARDEK were the... dreamstones, I think they were called? Those things where you got to hear characters' memories.
So while adding this, I had an idea: what if I extend this books-in-chest mechanic beyond this intro section by having the books generally contain characters' memories? Finding characters' thoughts in bizarrely short and scattered journals is common in games anyway (despite how stupid it is if you think about it), and it'd make sense for the psychepelagos in particular to contain characters' memories in some form. And writing little things is way easier than doing them all as animated scenes!
Collecting them all, too, might be appealing for players. Hmm, like the memory spheres - or whatever they were called - in FFX, come to think of it. Other games surely have similar things too.
I like the name 'Mementomes', combining 'memento' with 'tome'.
Lore Bookshelf
I also wondered whether the book UI I'd already made could be used to fancify the Lore section a bit.
I like the idea of a visual bookcase which fills with lore books, rather than a standard menu like I've had in all my previous projects. You can see at a glance how full your bookshelf is, and how many slots you've yet to fill.
Like real books, they have the title on the spine, rotated, though due to that and the small size they're barely legible. So that's a concern, but hopefully not a huge one?
I did this on Friday afternoon, so it still needs work. I see the element's not set properly here, whoops!
So yes! Good! I'm hoping to mostly finish the Collie's Psychepelago bit by next month, but apparently I was saying I'd have another playable version in a week over 3 months ago... Let's just see how things turn out! I'll do what I can.
I know it's nothing new, but sorry about being awful at replying to comments and things! Hopefully I'll reply to at least some soon...
27 COMMENTS
kidupiscean37~3Y
I like your idea of books that open like portals and teleport the characters! I also like your idea of mementomes.
The idea of lore bookshelf waiting to be filled with books to be collected is nice. Two thoughts:
1. Titles on spines will definitely look too small. Perhaps some form of magnification will be needed?
2. One book for every monster and the thickness of each book would imply quite a bit of contents for every monster. Would we be able to read the first two introduction pages only? Or maybe the rest of the pages could contain concept art of the monster?
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Tobias 1115~3Y
Moving the cursor over a book shows its entry, there's no need to select them explicitly with a button press, so I'm hoping that being able to read their titles won't be important... but we'll see how it goes!
It's common for RPGs to have whole bookshelves that apparently contain a single sentence of text! So I'm not too concerned about the actual content being much briefer than the whole-book thing would imply (the same is true of the Mementomes).
There are a couple of lines at the bottom of the book spines though, and I'm thinking of doing something with those. Like maybe each figmon has a pair of pages that you unlock when you first see the monster, and a second when you clear the species. The lines would be yellow or black depending on whether or not you'd unlocked the entries.
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Falcon64~3Y
Perhaps mousing over the spines could provide their names as a tooltip under the cursor? That might solve the legibility issue.
The mementome mechanic definitely feels appealing to me! Filling out the encyclopedia in MARDEK, and similar things in other games (like the codices in Bioware games) was something I always strived to do, and I read every entry! And for people who are not into that, it's not an intrusive mechanic by any means and can be safely disregarded. Most importantly, it makes the world seem more "full", more fleshed-out—after all, it wouldn't make sense for the characters to just go off into various unrelated lore tangents all the time! This way, you can still include extra lore in the game.
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Tobias 1115~3Y
I'm trying to focus purely on button inputs so then it works equally well on keyboard or controller, so I'll be avoiding mouse input. You move the cursor in this Lore section using the arrows, and when the cursor's over a book, it shows the monster it's for, so there wouldn't really be any need for a tooltip probably??
I've always really liked filling in bestiaries etc in games, so it definitely seems like a good thing to add for certain kinds of players!
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Astreon152~3Y
"Tot seems more neutral (it also means a measure of alcohol, but that feels vastly unrelated)"
I think it's quite related: judging by its constant wobbling, i get the feeling that celestial being is tipsy :)
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Travl9~3Y
Something's unclear to me. If you need a Bridove to catch other figmon, how do get a Bridove? Since the Bridove is itself a figmon, how would that work?
Congrats with all your progress by the way.
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Tobias 1115~3Y
Savitr starts with Bridove (or rather, acquires it as part of the intro/tutorial bit). Kind of like how you need Pokemon to catch other Pokemon, so you get a starter.
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Travl9~3Y
I was talking about the lore actually. What I meant was: How was the first figmon caught without a Bridove to catch it with? It is like asking how the first pokomon was caught without having other pokomon to catch pokomon with.
That is assuming that the Bridoves are themselves caught just like all the other figmon.
Although I suppose it does not have to make sense, easy illogical answers are valid in game development. If it really does just come in a starter kit with no explanation as to the history, then that is okay.
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Astreon152~3Y
As far as pokemons are concerned, in the anime they could be captured without being fought first, though under quite rare circumstances (like togepi's egg, which the team just happens to find).
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Falcon64~3Y
Considering the figmon are manifestations of people's inner thoughts and emotions, I'd assume music and already-tamed figmon (such as Bridove) just make taming them easier, and it is possible, with far more difficulty, to tame your outer inner demons through pure personal effort.
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Travl9~3Y
I like your theory. It seems that figmon are 'skills' in a way, which based on your idea means that figmon would then be the elite versions of basic skills. (and basic skills being, as you called it: "pure personal effort")
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Astreon152~3Y
The way i see it, it's quite logical that you cannot tame the negative incarnation of your mind without manifesting a positive incarnation of your mind ?
I picture the whole battle phase thing as inner-mind battles.
Guess that would make group battles sort of collective mind struggles ?
Maybe it's just me being confused lol :)
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Travl9~3Y
So are you suggesting that Bridoves are figmon without a negative expression? That would solve the riddle! If Tobias aggrees, that is.
If they do not need to be tamed then they could just picked up and manifested against other figmon with no trouble at all.
I wonder where Bridoves would be encountered then considering that they have no negative aspect.
Although maybe I missed something somewhere. I will wait to see what Tobias says. Or maybe it was never intended to make sense.
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Travl9~3Y
And to be honest the thought of engaging in collective mind struggles with a bunch of characters makes me smile. An unusual and interesting idea. Don't you think? :)
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LightAcolyte22~3Y
Wow, you've been busy!
LOVE IT:
Keyboard/Button Navigation Design
Figmon
Book Portals
Mementomes
Celestot
Development of Celestot
Etymology of Celestot
Bridove
Lore in Game like MARDEK Encyclopedia
Took a Mental Health Week for Yourself!
HATE IT ON YOUR BEHALF:
Circumstances Causing the Feeling of Needing to Take a Mental Health Week
UNCLEAR:
Skills are Figmon (So...all of them? I'm confused as to why can't people be skilled too aside from the manifestation of figmon? Maybe only a certain level of skill is so remarkable it exceeds the level of the innate and ascends to the level of figmon manifestation?)
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Tobias 1115~3Y
I feel that focusing on figmon as the primary gameplay mechanic just makes for a less scattered game. Why do Team Rocket grunts try to stop the Pokemon trainer who's interfering with their evil plots by sending out a handful of weak Pokemon, then completely giving up when they're defeated? There's nothing stopping them from just physically restraining the trainer, or using a gun! But those games are about using Pokemon, and this game is about using figmon. Suspension of disbelief and all that.
A few months ago I did have innate non-figmon skills, but I feel it just clutters everything up without any significant benefit. I prefer the more streamlined approach.
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LightAcolyte22~3Y
Ah OK: I see what you are trying to achieve now. Thanks for clarifying! Glad you have been able to zero-in on your focus here.
One aspect to consider may be analogous to Pokemon "trainer" skills like in tabletop play or how Golden Sun handles "battle" skills vs. "world" skills of the character. When you have a multiple party member system, having a unique world skill/interaction can help define the character better to your players when the only difference in gameplay is their figmon companion and fluff/personality bears the full weight of their character development. Pokemon doesn't address this as there really is no party that participates in battle aside from the Pokemon throughout the core games to create any opportunity for differentiation that would be meaningful.
This doesn't mean you can't have good characters without a gameplay element attached if you don't want it, though! (smile)
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Tobias 1115~3Y
Figmon are skills, which make use of the summoner's stats; they're more like mini summons than Pokemon, or it's like if spells were creatures rather than just particle effects, if that makes sense?
Characters also have a Special skill unique to them, and monsters have one or two of twelve possible 'species' (Monstrife is Beast/Arcane, for example), and each character can only use certain species of figmon.
To give an example, both Collie and Savitr would have the Palade figmon/skill at the start (past the intro), which deals Bliss elemental damage. Both can use it, but Savitr's got higher attack and is Bliss elemental himself, so he'd deal more damage with it than the Courage-elemental Collie. Though she's also got a Tough rune and he doesn't... which evens things out a bit.
Hopefully it'll become clearer from actual gameplay!
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LightAcolyte22~3Y
I think your explanation does make sense, thanks!
It sounds like a specific combination of Special skill, element and rune would then make characters unique in terms of gameplay identity. Whether they remain so in practice then would depend on how much each aspect is shared by other characters in the game, influences gameplay, and cannot be replicated by or substituted with later gameplay mechanics: something I look forward to trying out in game!
Keep up the great work! (smile)
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AdmiralLara49~3Y
So this series is just going to turn into another Pokémon clone? Oh great, you've never tried to do *that* before...
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Tobias 1115~3Y
It's as much a Pokemon clone as Ni No Kuni or Final Fantasy XIII-2.
And making games is a vastly different experience when there's actually the potential to make money from it, which there never really was with Flash games.
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AdmiralLara49~3Y
Well, I'll be impressed either way if you actually manage to finish this one while doing like five different people's jobs! As I hope that the result will be worthwhile in the end... it often seems like who succeeds and fails in these things is a crapshoot, and there's already so many of these similar-type games around, as you said
0
Lordofsea19~3Y
I want to be honest: I'm not a huge fan of the books-idea. There are a few reasons why:
- It's overused in the gaming media: whenever I stumble over books/notebook scraps in games, it feels like *work* to read those segments. It always felt to be a disjointed part of the medium.
- The reason the dreamstones worked so well, was that they felt like a natural part of the in-game universe. You don't question floating crystals containing thoughts and memories, they are just curiosities that adds to the mystery of the world.
Reading those segments didn't feel like work, which brings me to the next point:
- There is a discernible phenomenological difference in reading book segments and reading a 'crystal memory'. The former feels like I'm reading in an actual book, which breaks the flow of the game. It also adds a certain "book-voice" in my head.
However, reading the crystals feels different. The voice in my head is not a 'book voice', but rather the voice of the character that the crystal belongs to. It works better for several reasons: it's feels more personal and intimate, it makes more sense 'in-universe', and absorbing the text flows more naturally with the game.
I think another benefit of 'dreamstones' is that they allow you to examine a person's thoughts as they are experiencing something concrete - like fighting or dying for example? Sure, someone dying in the field could pull out his notebook and scribble down his final thoughts.. but would this truly capture his final thoughts? Wouldn't he be too exhausted to write at some point? Won't it take too long to articulate those thoughts on paper?
With dreamstones, you can express that fear and chaos of a slowly dying mind - and gain a "true" insight in what is really happening in his mind.
______
I really do like the concept of accessing the private thoughts and memoirs of characters though. I hope you go through with it - you have a fantastic and unique opportunity to build your characters with this dreamy, ethereal world. Just thought I would throw in my two cents on the issue.
2
Tobias 1115~3Y
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I understand what you mean about reading books feeling different to reading dialogue, and I'll keep that in mind as I work on this. I was imagining it less as something anyone would have explicitly written, and more like... crystallised memories that manifest in a form most accessible to the viewer. So they're not actually books, they just look like that. I was thinking the writing style in them would be more like a captured stream of consciousness than a novel. I suppose that's what diaries/journals are, though?
There seems to be this pull I'm constantly feeling while working on this between wanting to do something really original, and knowing that people are most receptive to the familiar... So is something overused necessarily a bad thing? I really don't even know anymore!
Hmm, one idea that just came to mind is to kind of merge the two concepts... Like maybe instead of the books having pages full of text, each page is just a short thought, perhaps even glowing in a colour corresponding to its thinker, like the dreamstones. I wonder whether a book with like two dozen of those single-quote pages would feel shorter and like less work than two or four pages full of brown text...
Oh, but the Mementomes idea grew out of wanting to explore the idea of a narrative being transformative, with Collie being inspired to transcend her dark home life and join the Seraphim because of stories she'd read about Savitr. Using the mechanics for that for something filling the same role as dreamstones was just a bonus, really.
I'll need to think about this, see if I can find something that works!
1
LightAcolyte22~3Y
I think I would just add my voice to this in that I do enjoy the concept of dreamstones you introduced previously a lot, but I also like the idea of mementomes a lot. I don't see why you could not use both as they seem to allow potentially different perspective-related foci to me. However, if you extend dreamstones to spheres like in FFX you now open up how memories and thoughts were recorded in that game and its successor FFX-2 which includes how information could be collected about enemies and areas. I am not advocating for "dress spheres" with this reference though...just to make the clear. (wink)
1
Tobias 1115~3Y
"Why not use both/all options?" is something people always suggest when there's something that could be taken in multiple directions, but it always feels so sloppy to me. I much prefer the... elegance, I suppose, of things that serve multiple purposes (it's also easier to make such things, which is a big draw for me as the dev).
1
LightAcolyte22~3Y
I appreciate that. For the specific case of this game world, I think in MARDEK the Encyclopedia and Dreamstones achieved very different objectives and worked well together given the length of Chapter Three.
Zooming out to a more philosophical and general approach: life is full of diversity, and games will always be a subset or slice of other lives in other roles. The degree to which gaming is representative of real hypothetical potentials in other worlds and lives is entirely up to your choices as game designer!
How you choose to diversify or consolidate aspects of your game world whether in terms of background, game mechanics or simply GUI design will also impact the depth of engagement with those respective elements. Sometimes people get tired of reading books in the same old format and like the inconsistent shake-up of a different presentation now and then; yet conversely, accessible game design often focuses on consolidation and unification of game elements to streamline means of access to it all. These are all things you must carefully balance depending on your target audience, game genre and age group: diversity vs. consolidation of game elements; same format vs. variable format access to world-building detail; and, conscious engagement in complexity with enduring creative provocation vs. unconscious engagement in simplicity with a streamlined data feed.
Therefore, I think this is more about what type of game you intend to make as to how that balance will be appreciated within the player base and represented by you. I also think this has a lot to do with how many hours of play you foresee the game having...adding the spice of a new element throughout progression can really benefit a long game but will crowd interest and potentially intimidate players in a short game. These are topics no one else besides you is suitable to address really until a game is complete and reviewed within the context of all the available content. So for now, I say, "In Tobias we trust," is the order of the day. (smile)
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