Alora Fane

Should I get a job??

I just had a video call with the friend I occasionally do those with, who's probably my only real friend at the moment. Or I mean there are a couple of others, maybe, but we rarely talk. I don't even talk to this friend often, though - it's been weeks since our last call - but whatever!

We met on the Psychology uni course I did - we were in the same dissertation group - after which my path was disrupted by the brain surgery, while she went on to do a Master's in some kind of data science area. I got back into games dev because I couldn't leave the house after the surgery, while she got an opportunity with one of those 'get women into tech' programs, which has now led to an upcoming job as a data analyst for which she'll be earning more than double my meagre scrapings in her starting position.

Which... got me thinking. Though not as depressively as might be expected!

Maybe I should be doing something else?

It's certainly something that's been at the back of my mind for a long time, but I suppose it always felt really abstract, and there were so many holes in my knowledge and experience that the phantom conceptions I had about what such a thing would even entail were so vague and frightening that I just couldn't imagine being able to cope with it.

Having a job has always been this big, scary thing, mostly for anxiety-related reasons. I've recently spent some time every day browsing through - and in rare cases engaging with - the Reddit communities ∞ r/socialanxiety ∞ and ∞ r/AvPD ∞ (Avoidant Personality Disorder), and while there are many posters in those who do have jobs, there are also many who either currently don't have one, or have never had one, for anxiety-related reasons.

Though it's darkly comical seeing threads where for example the poster frets about being too old to be getting a first job at the venerable age of 18, while here I am, almost 34 without ever being formally employed.

Which I can't imagine wouldn't impede me were I to search for one. Right?

And yet... One of the enlightening things this friend has talked about is how frustratingly incompetent her coursemates generally are, and how they're going to end up in the same role as her despite it. She - like me - is the sort who, when put in a group, will end up doing most of the work while others slack off, and it all makes me wonder how much of the workforce is made up of mediocre slackers - C and D students - considering it's always seemed to be the majority when doing group work in school and uni. Plus they made up the majority in the grade distributions.

So would I do better than I expect? Would I be a better worker than most if I'm the sort who'd actually put the effort in?

I mean, I'm putting all this effort into the games that I make, by myself, with nobody whipping me to do any of it. I'm self-motivated and at least relatively competent. I'm very likely more skilled at programming than my friend, considering our relative experience and what she's told me about the assignments she's done, and she's apparently qualified for a job.

Though I can't help but wonder whether that's at least partly because she's a diversity hire - a woman in tech, and a foreign one at that - who could tick boxes that I as a white male couldn't. She has an advantage whereas I have a disadvantage in this 'woke' age. Maybe. There are no "get white men into tech" programs, obviously.

But I'm so naive and inexperienced with the real world that I just don't know about any of this stuff. It all feels a world away when I'm alone in my creative cocoon. It felt so much more real when talking about it with her, when someone I personally know talked about these actual experiences rather than just hearing strangers hint at them online or in fictional media.

I suppose it's like how in school, I didn't exactly get great grades - I never got bad grades, but I cared more about making games than paying attention to schoolwork - but I formed an ill-fated 'best-friendship' in uni which encouraged me to get mostly A grades and up, to be one of the top handful of students on the course of hundreds, because that friend was similarly studious. For me at least, it's much easier to walk a certain path if I 'm walking it with someone. And I've never had anyone to walk along the job path with before.

Now that I kind of do, I'm wondering, for maybe the first time, whether having a job is something I could really do, something I should do...

I don't know though. She's mostly been talking in the hypothetical about a job she's got coming up, but which she's not actually had any direct experience with yet. I've seen many people on the social anxiety subreddits talking about jobs they've started, but quit due to an inability to cope. Will she be ranting, pained, a few months from now due to difficulties as a result of her own anxieties? Would I be the same? I mean, I barely coped at university. I ended up attempting suicide. Maybe I'm just not mentally well enough?

(I suspect based on our relative experiences that she'd cope better than me, though. She's at least had work-like experiences; I've not.)

Would it be easier if I moved somewhere near where she'd be, so we could meet up and talk every so often and I wouldn't be as suffocated by isolation? She's not currently in the UK, but the job's based here, and she'll be moving to the middle of some city for it (though it sounds like it's going to be largely remote work anyway). I've been intending to move out for ages, but since there's no specific place I need to be near for a job, the biggest uncertainty regarding that has been where to move to. I had nothing motivating me to choose anywhere in particular, so I never chose anything, and I'm still here with my parents. So I wonder whether moving within walking distance of a friend would help me mentally, or whether we'd just not end up meeting up much anyway and I'd resent my desperate decision and feel worse.

The thought of moving in together is something we talked about a while back, fruitlessly, so I can't help but wonder about that again. She hasn't decided on anywhere yet. I don't know if either of us would actually want that though, especially since she has a boyfriend who's not me (though I think he's in another country?). I'm not interested in her as a potential partner, and I wouldn't want such a desire to undesirably develop. I'm no catch.

I don't know. My mind's buzzing!

Every day I feel so... conflicted. On the one hand, I love what I'm doing; I greatly value the autonomy, and I'd psychologically starve if unable to engage in creative work, which most jobs don't revolve around. And I really, really don't want to leave Atonal Dreams unfinished. But I'm also aware of how much time it's taking, how old I am, how pathetic my life situation seems on paper. How I go months without leaving the house or having a meaningful conversation. Having one like the one I just had feels like a huge transformation just because they're so rare. Would I be so much mentally better if I lived in the real world instead of in my head?

But of course there's money... Single bedroom flats where she's looking for accommodation cost around what I've been earning in a month lately, and that's without bills, food, etc. I do have a decent amount in savings, but I don't really want to eat through all that (but what else would I ever do with it if I just never used it? It's like the Megalixir I can't bring myself to use to survive the superboss because I might need it some other time).

But what if I do a Kickstarter soon? Is there any hope of that bringing in enough money? If it does, I could justify continuing to do what I'm doing for a while longer. If it didn't, could I? Could I even manage that kind of a campaign, mentally? Would it be easier if I lived near or with a real-world friend who could keep me from getting entirely lost in my head for months?

I suppose my main thought at the moment is that I should finish Atonal Dreams before looking for any kind of job, probably. If nothing else, I'd be able to point an employer to a finished, published, self-made project rather than something I started but never finished. I mean MARDEK and Memody are already finished games, but I feel like Atonal Dreams is maybe on another, more impressive level, or something. And I've poured too much into it to give up now. I WANT to finish it!

I also wonder whether I could or should do something like part-time work or volunteering to mentally prepare myself for real employment, to gauge whether or not I could cope. I feel though that time's ticking to some degree since this situation with this friend presents some potential that won't be around forever. Maybe it's just because it's so fresh in my mind.

I don't know. I'm rambling to myself, mostly! Maybe I'll look at this tomorrow and feel completely different, maybe hopeless again... But that's why things like this snap me out of the stupor so sharply. I'm acutely aware of how damaging the isolation is to my mind and mood, and how beneficial it is to get out of my head and interact with the world. I just usually don't have any people or any opportunities, and this feels like one.

Obviously I should at least sleep on it before making any big decisions... I should probably go and do that now.

...I still haven't even decided on which new PC to get because I've been so stuck in a foggy-minded rut for so long!

14 COMMENTS

FoxySama1~3Y

Like you, I never had an official job.

But on the topic of colleagues or teammates slacking, what I can tell you is that slacking in itself is not the problem.

The problem is that slackers are mostly composed of "silver spoon" with the biggest problem in their life being the "Oh no, my toaster broke this morning and I can't eat breakfast before work"

Slacking is good for mental health but only in some context :
When you know your capability, you can slack a little if it doesn't cause problem to your teammates or colleagues and your not waiting at the last minute to do your work with mediocre quality and alienated peers.

PoggersJuice4203~3Y

Bruh just move to Asscrackistan and your patreon money alone will afford you a mansion and 7 wives.

Tobias 1115~3Y

Thank you for the pearl of wisdom, PoggersJuice420. I shall give it some serious consideration.

LotBlind53~3Y

Hahaha...

purplerabbits148~3Y

Been a while since I had the time to comment.

To me, it seems like decision paralysis seems to be plaguing you. It's been almost a month(I think) of deciding and looking at PC's.

On the question of getting a job. I'd say go for it. Whether it be a volunteer, part-time, or fullltime job, I think the social interaction will help out with your social isolation. I personally found my mood get better once I went back to work since lockdown. Even though I am an introvert, I am still human and I never realized I needed social interaction outside my family.

I am kind of weird in that if I have a "task" to do, like an exam to study for, I suddenly get struck by a million things that inspire me for my creative projects. That pushes me to acomplish my task as fast as possible so I can enjoy myself sooner. It's a bit like how when I was back in school I couldn't wait to come back home to play video games. The wait to play gave me a delayed gratification for playing games. Not sure if you also experience something like that, but it could be a way to help with making progress on Atonal Dreams.

Been a while since I had the time to comment.

To me, it seems like decision paralysis seems to be plaguing you. It's been almost a month(I think) of deciding and looking at PC's.

On the question of getting a job. I'd say go for it. Whether it be a volunteer, part-time, or fullltime job, I think the social interaction will help out with your social isolation. I personally found my mood get better once I went back to work since lockdown. Even though I am an introvert, I am still human and I never realized I needed social interaction outside my family.

I am kind of weird in that if I have a "task" to do, like an exam to study for, I suddenly get struck by a million things that inspire me for my creative projects. That pushes me to acomplish my task as fast as possible so I can enjoy myself sooner. It's a bit like how when I was back in school I couldn't wait to come back home to play video games. The wait to play gave me a delayed gratification for playing games. Not sure if you also experience something like that, but it could be a way to help with making progress on Atonal Dreams.

Tobias 1115~3Y

I definitely get the urge to do things when circumstances are preventing me from doing them! But I also spend a lot of time with mental motivation that I can't act on due to physical fatigue from depression. So I might go to a job - or whatever - wishing the whole time I could be working on Atonal Dreams instead, only to come home eager to do so and be too tired to even open it. Seems the most likely scenario.

I definitely want some human contact, but going to a new job is a huge gamble. I could find ~my people~ and make long-lasting connections with like minds! Or I could feel like a complete outsider and more isolated than I do when I'm by myself. Since the latter's all I've known in the past, it's what I assume would happen again were I to put myself out there. And if I'd been hired, I'd be stuck there! I think? Though I've seen people on r/socialanxiety talking about quitting their jobs without days or a couple of weeks due to that, so maybe it's easier to get out than I'm assuming...

As for decision paralysis re getting a PC, mostly I just don't even find the time to think about that, due to the aforementioned depression fatigue! I need to find an hour or two to just focus on it and nothing else... or so I keep telling myself, but never actually do.

I definitely want /some/ human contact, but going to a new job is a huge gamble. I could find ~my people~ and make long-lasting connections with like minds! Or I could feel like a complete outsider and more isolated than I do when I'm by myself. Since the latter's all I've known in the past, it's what I assume would happen again were I to /put myself out there/. And if I'd been hired, I'd be stuck there! I think? Though I've seen people on r/socialanxiety talking about quitting their jobs without days or a couple of weeks due to that, so maybe it's easier to get out than I'm assuming...

As for decision paralysis re getting a PC, mostly I just don't even find the time to think about that, due to the aforementioned depression fatigue! I need to find an hour or two to just focus on it and nothing else... or so I keep telling myself, but never actually do.

Falcon64~3Y

If I were you, I would definitely consider doing some part-time work; most workplaces also have probation periods, and even if not, you can always ask for a month-long contract to start off with. Ultimately, there is no way to truly know what a job is like without trying it, and the knowledge will help you chart your future path in an informed way.

Don't worry about your age—it would be more of an issue if you had zero experience, but you *do* have a dazzling array of skills, and should have no problem getting a job in IT, even creative positions; all you need is to build a portfolio from the stuff you've already made. Heck, you even *published* games, which is way more than the vast majority of your competition.

While of course I would personally want to play more of your games, that should not come at the cost of your own life and comfort—and if you end up in a better place, both financially and mentally, surely that will benefit your work as well. It's amazing how many opportunities open up when one stops worrying about the future.

Don't worry about your age—it would be more of an issue if you had zero experience, but you *do* have a dazzling array of skills, and should have no problem getting a job in IT, even creative positions; all you need is to build a portfolio from the stuff you've already made. Heck, you even *published* games, which is way more than the vast majority of your competition.

While of course I would personally want to play more of your games, that should not come at the cost of your own life and comfort—and if you end up in a better place, both financially and mentally, surely that will benefit your work as well. It's amazing how many opportunities open up when one stops worrying about the future.

Tobias 1115~3Y

I think that even if I had a job to pay the bills, I'd still keep making stuff because I'd go mad if I didn't. I certainly have no plans to stop being creative. I'm hoping that if I can do a successful Kickstarter to fund Atonal Dreams, I can better justify doing this without worrying too much about getting a job, but it's still all uncertain at the moment, of course.

Part-time seems like the better place to start, though! I've been wondering for a while whether to do volunteering, but it's basically work without pay, and it felt like a waste of time I could be using more productively. With a part-time job, I'd hopefully be able to at least say I've had the workplace experience without it feeling like as much of a waste.

And thanks for seeing values in my creative skills and the things they've produced!

Tama_Yoshi82~3Y

As someone who works in development, and has been keeping the occasional eye on game dev industries, it's undeniable your resume is going to be appealing. It is absolutely true that in the industry, a lot of devs are just "meh"; I've spent a lot of time explaining to other devs how to do their code, how to understand certain technologies, etc., when I myself didn't have a lot of experience with those technologies, it's just that I'd taken the time to sit down and tinker with it until I understood it. It seems a lot of people just throw things at technologies until they work, without really taking the time to understand them.

Since you're self-taught, you've obviously learned to, uh, learn! The greater question is whether you would feel comfortable sitting down with people who struggle, and explain patiently to them. But your temperament, empathy and expertise makes me think that should be easy for you.

And this isn't to speak of the handful of other meaningful skills you've developped while working on your various multi-media projects.

I'm not sure how that should be presented on your resume, it's possible you should write it as "10 years as self-employed game dev". It's a bit of a twist of logic, but I think it gets all the information across, and while a lot of those 10 years were not spent being very productive, you can still shower them with your portfolio and they'll have to believe you on it. The experience will give you a wage boost, as per industry standard.

A possible people-skill you might need to watch out for is the skill of being able to negotiate your solutions/ideas as opposed to other ideas. For developpers, that means (usually) being able to say "No we can't do that we don't have the time, I will not have it, we'll have to rush it and we'll suffer from it afterwards". The book "Clean Code" has a nice section about that kind of mentality. (btw if you're going for developer, pay attention to whether the employer uses Clean Code principles; without it, it can be a hassle)

Whether it works for you or not is dependent on whether you expect to like the work you go for. I personally like code, so even if I work at an insurance company (eh) it's still plenty of fun, and there are a bunch of nice puzzles to fix. That's really most of it. Colleagues can be hit or miss, my closest friends are (mostly) my colleagues right now, and I've had to get one of my colleagues because they were so absymally bad at code (though they did not suffer from a bad temperament) that it clashed with their resume and job description. Unlike in school life, professionals have incentives to "behave" and get along, so it's usually easy to avoid conflict if you like someone less. The rest is mostly whether your boss is nice or on your side, which is a roll of the dice.

As per the "women get priviledged" stuff, I don't think you should dwell on it. Positive Discrimination (as it is sometimes called) usually affects people who are only a "nudge" away from getting or not getting the position, but your overwhelming expertise should either mean you're clearly getting, or clearly not getting, the position. It's not like you're one of those incompetent people who'll just get the job because they got lucky.

Since you're self-taught, you've obviously learned to, uh, learn! The greater question is whether you would feel comfortable sitting down with people who struggle, and explain patiently to them. But your temperament, empathy and expertise makes me think that should be easy for you.

And this isn't to speak of the handful of other meaningful skills you've developped while working on your various multi-media projects.

I'm not sure how that should be presented on your resume, it's possible you should write it as "10 years as self-employed game dev". It's a bit of a twist of logic, but I think it gets all the information across, and while a lot of those 10 years were not spent being very productive, you can still shower them with your portfolio and they'll have to believe you on it. The experience will give you a wage boost, as per industry standard.

A possible people-skill you might need to watch out for is the skill of being able to negotiate your solutions/ideas as opposed to other ideas. For developpers, that means (usually) being able to say "No we can't do that we don't have the time, I will not have it, we'll have to rush it and we'll suffer from it afterwards". The book "Clean Code" has a nice section about that kind of mentality. (btw if you're going for developer, pay attention to whether the employer uses Clean Code principles; without it, it can be a hassle)

Whether it works for you or not is dependent on whether you expect to like the work you go for. I personally like code, so even if I work at an insurance company (eh) it's still plenty of fun, and there are a bunch of nice puzzles to fix. That's really most of it. Colleagues can be hit or miss, my closest friends are (mostly) my colleagues right now, and I've had to get one of my colleagues because they were so absymally bad at code (though they did not suffer from a bad temperament) that it clashed with their resume and job description. Unlike in school life, professionals have incentives to "behave" and get along, so it's usually easy to avoid conflict if you like someone less. The rest is mostly whether your boss is nice or on your side, which is a roll of the dice.

As per the "women get priviledged" stuff, I don't think you should dwell on it. Positive Discrimination (as it is sometimes called) usually affects people who are only a "nudge" away from getting or not getting the position, but your overwhelming expertise should either mean you're clearly getting, or clearly not getting, the position. It's not like you're one of those incompetent people who'll just get the job because they got lucky.

Tobias 1115~3Y

Thanks for this comment, I find it very useful!

I've tried to teach code to three people in the past - my ex, one guy at school I'd spend lunch times doing that with, and a friend at uni - so I don't mind doing that, and if anything I'd appreciate the opportunity to be of value. But I'm surprised it'd be common or even expected while on the job! Maybe people are generally even less qualified than I thought... which at least means I'm less likely to be rejected?

My main concern about going to get hired though is that the whole interview process seems - from what I've gleaned from afar, without actual experience - like some kind of formalised social ritual that assesses skills entirely unrelated to what you'd be using on the job (that is, how well you can sell yourself, and general diplomacy). So since I have social anxiety and I'm convinced I'm cripplingly socially inept and I'll say stupid or inappropriate things whenever I open my mouth and embarrass myself, the anxiety most people seem to feel about job interviews is amplified. There are posts almost every day on r/socialanxiety from people who've avoided jobs for this reason. I suppose actual experience would be required to overcome those fears, but, well, easier said than done...

I'm also concerned about ending up stuck in a job I hate. I don't enjoy code in and of itself; I can use it as a tool, but the pleasure for me comes from bringing my ideas to life, not from problem solving or whatever. So I wonder if I'd just feel suffocated in a coding job. What kinds of things does it actually involve on the day-to-day?

Having a set group of colleagues and managers who I can't chose or easily escape from puts me off too, since most dice-roll scenarios like that haven't been great for me. If I could feel confident I'd end up in a group I'd click with, and that I'd have understanding and mild-mannered management, that'd be great! But I suppose most people wish they had that and don't. I'm assuming coding jobs are mostly or entirely nerdy guys?

This is something I'll need to think of more over time; I'm not intending to go out and get a job any time soon or anything. Ideally I'd like to finish Atonal Dreams first, and most of my time's spent trying to achieve that.

Thanks for this comment, I find it very useful!

I've tried to teach code to three people in the past - my ex, one guy at school I'd spend lunch times doing that with, and a friend at uni - so I don't mind doing that, and if anything I'd appreciate the opportunity to be of value. But I'm surprised it'd be common or even expected while on the job! Maybe people are generally even less qualified than I thought... which at least means I'm less likely to be rejected?

My main concern about going to get hired though is that the whole interview process seems - from what I've gleaned from afar, without actual experience - like some kind of formalised social ritual that assesses skills entirely unrelated to what you'd be using on the job (that is, how well you can sell yourself, and general diplomacy). So since I have social anxiety and I'm convinced I'm cripplingly socially inept and I'll say stupid or inappropriate things whenever I open my mouth and embarrass myself, the anxiety most people seem to feel about job interviews is amplified. There are posts almost every day on r/socialanxiety from people who've avoided jobs for this reason. I suppose actual experience would be required to overcome those fears, but, well, easier said than done...

I'm also concerned about ending up stuck in a job I hate. I don't enjoy code in and of itself; I can use it as a tool, but the pleasure for me comes from bringing my ideas to life, not from problem solving or whatever. So I wonder if I'd just feel suffocated in a coding job. What kinds of things does it actually involve on the day-to-day?

Having a set group of colleagues and managers who I can't chose or easily escape from puts me off too, since most dice-roll scenarios like that haven't been great for me. If I could feel confident I'd end up in a group I'd click with, and that I'd have understanding and mild-mannered management, that'd be great! But I suppose most people wish they had that and don't. I'm assuming coding jobs are mostly or entirely nerdy guys?

This is something I'll need to think of more over time; I'm not intending to go out and get a job any time soon or anything. Ideally I'd like to finish Atonal Dreams first, and most of my time's spent trying to achieve that.

Tama_Yoshi82~3Y

"Nerdy" is not quite right. I've seen a lot of socially awkward guys, the stereotypical kind, in my computer science classes. But by and large people were just very introverted, and had a diverse (but semi-predictible) array of interests, ranging from movies/series/games mainstream to more obscure, certain healthy exercise interests, but not in a way that defined them to the point of stereotype. They were largely just a bunch of people with casual interests. Most of my colleagues are around 35 years with some industry experience, most of them are new since rotation is fairly common. Older guys are usually not nerdy, but are more what you would expect in that range (fathers, esp.). For some reason our analysts are almost entirely female. I had two colleagues in my age bracket who were male, one of which was Nigerian and a very wholesome person. One colleague was a female dev, but she is very shy and difficult to talk to (although not awkward, it's just that there are very few "hooks" for non-professional conversations with her).

I consider my colleagues to be very good. We played board games/switch games during lunch breaks regularly pre-pandemic. We played a bit of AmongUs online since, but not very often. Speaking of lunch, we have a very good cafeteria which saves a lot of hassle preparing my meals.

I expect that the closer you get to the indie scene, the more you will see younger people (same with startups). Otherwise it's a lot of older people who "chose" to do this as a career in more formal and stable positions.

The demographics are probably a little different in the video game industry, but I didn't really like the vibes that I got from the industry (a lot of crunch), even though the diversity of positions was more interesting.

Day-to-day will vary depending on your job position, I suspect you would like front-end (web) positions more, since they often involve a blend of code and design, although design is usually relegated to UI experts (at least in my case), but maybe not for smaller firms. I've done full-stack work, so I've run the full gamut, from css (sometimes ahead of design, meaning some of my css stuck around), to building-blocks for various kinds of design patterns to repeat between pages, to writing documentation to explain to other devs how my building blocks work (despite often needing to explain it in person anyway), to writing the back-end services which involve Database queries (Database stuff is usually pretty confusing at first but a very surface level understanding is usually enough unless it's your expertise), and there's minor formalities with releasing new code; every firm is going to have some variation of that. Knowing GIT is a good way to start; even personal code should be handled in GIT, in my opinion.

A lot of firms will have their own set of obscure technologies, but nobody reasonably expects people to know those technologies, most people will just learn as they go. That's what I did, and I've become dependable anyway (although I was lucky to be put on a new project-- older projects can be harsh to newcomers since you can spend more time understanding what previous people did, and in the industry it's common that they didn't do it right-- old code is rarely Clean Code, and therefore very bad).

In my case, the "business" knowledge is not stuff I'm required to know (I barely even understand it still, tax stuff is really complicated); we have dedicated analysts do it for us.

As for the interview process, a part of it is knowing what to expect, and knowing the basic stuff a dev should know usually helps. Unless you're applying for the main ones like Google, the interview should be fairly simple with questions to test your expertise, and sometimes your ability to focus (idk, that's what they did to me). Regardless how many shenanigans they throw at you during the interview, there's going to be a lot of randomness; the person who interviewed me later told me he'd chosen me because I'd volunteered to grab a sharpie to draw design-patterns (computer science stuff) on a board as I explained. Apparently that showed great initiative, or something. I still reportedly got high marks on the more technical quiz, but it came off as arbitrary that grabbing a sharpie was a note-worthy thing. I suppose some people stress out trying to answer.

Of course, I'm from Quebec and I'm only relating my limited experience. It just seems very arbitrary. A bit like meeting someone; you don't know whether you'll make a friend, or whether it'll turn into a bad memory. If you do several interviews, you can probably pick from the multiple places that want to hire you based on your experience during the interview. And maybe you fail a couple due to stress or bad luck, but going to one interview is a bit like going to one psychiatrist or meeting one person. You have to be ready to face a base level of failure.

PS: My job is a 35 hour week which is consindered full time, although less than the more common 40 hour week. I like having the time, although it's easier to procrastinate all of my hobbies away. I can imagine doing part-time would be more fitting to you for these reasons.

I consider my colleagues to be very good. We played board games/switch games during lunch breaks regularly pre-pandemic. We played a bit of AmongUs online since, but not very often. Speaking of lunch, we have a very good cafeteria which saves a lot of hassle preparing my meals.

I expect that the closer you get to the indie scene, the more you will see younger people (same with startups). Otherwise it's a lot of older people who "chose" to do this as a career in more formal and stable positions.

The demographics are probably a little different in the video game industry, but I didn't really like the vibes that I got from the industry (a lot of crunch), even though the diversity of positions was more interesting.

Day-to-day will vary depending on your job position, I suspect you would like front-end (web) positions more, since they often involve a blend of code and design, although design is usually relegated to UI experts (at least in my case), but maybe not for smaller firms. I've done full-stack work, so I've run the full gamut, from css (sometimes ahead of design, meaning some of my css stuck around), to building-blocks for various kinds of design patterns to repeat between pages, to writing documentation to explain to other devs how my building blocks work (despite often needing to explain it in person anyway), to writing the back-end services which involve Database queries (Database stuff is usually pretty confusing at first but a very surface level understanding is usually enough unless it's your expertise), and there's minor formalities with releasing new code; every firm is going to have some variation of that. Knowing GIT is a good way to start; even personal code should be handled in GIT, in my opinion.

A lot of firms will have their own set of obscure technologies, but nobody reasonably expects people to know those technologies, most people will just learn as they go. That's what I did, and I've become dependable anyway (although I was lucky to be put on a new project-- older projects can be harsh to newcomers since you can spend more time understanding what previous people did, and in the industry it's common that they didn't do it right-- old code is rarely Clean Code, and therefore very bad).

In my case, the "business" knowledge is not stuff I'm required to know (I barely even understand it still, tax stuff is really complicated); we have dedicated analysts do it for us.

As for the interview process, a part of it is knowing what to expect, and knowing the basic stuff a dev should know usually helps. Unless you're applying for the main ones like Google, the interview should be fairly simple with questions to test your expertise, and sometimes your ability to focus (idk, that's what they did to me). Regardless how many shenanigans they throw at you during the interview, there's going to be a lot of randomness; the person who interviewed me later told me he'd chosen me because I'd volunteered to grab a sharpie to draw design-patterns (computer science stuff) on a board as I explained. Apparently that showed great initiative, or something. I still reportedly got high marks on the more technical quiz, but it came off as arbitrary that grabbing a sharpie was a note-worthy thing. I suppose some people stress out trying to answer.

Of course, I'm from Quebec and I'm only relating my limited experience. It just seems very arbitrary. A bit like meeting someone; you don't know whether you'll make a friend, or whether it'll turn into a bad memory. If you do several interviews, you can probably pick from the multiple places that want to hire you based on your experience during the interview. And maybe you fail a couple due to stress or bad luck, but going to one interview is a bit like going to one psychiatrist or meeting one person. You have to be ready to face a base level of failure.

PS: My job is a 35 hour week which is consindered full time, although less than the more common 40 hour week. I like having the time, although it's easier to procrastinate all of my hobbies away. I can imagine doing part-time would be more fitting to you for these reasons.

Maniafig222~3Y

I think getting a part-time job would be a good idea, if you can manage it.

I've had a job for some years now, just some plain office jobs where I do tax-related stuff, and overall it's probably less exciting than it seems.

I've had this experience myself during work, where I'm doing these work-related classes, and I'm surprised at how uninformed or dumb some of the people doing these classes are, asking super basic questions or not grasping the core aspects of the class they signed up for. Enough to make me wonder whether they got someone else to do their pre-class assignments!

I do remember in university that group work was a mixed bag, I've had some groups where we were all equally motivated and all contributed useful things to the project, but I've also had a few where I just did everything myself, and even worse, one where someone always handed in utter garbage and me and my other project member had to fix it all. The last's worse than the middle!

I think there's something to be said for not putting in everything though. After all, who are you doing it for? The company's dime? I know someone who was always was a diligent and hard worker, but the moment she was unfit for labour none of that mattered anymore. She says that she put in so much, but never really got much out of it. A lot of people these days work themselves into burn-outs, apparently even at universities or earlier...

I guess there's a healthy balance between half-assing things and straining oneself beyond what's acceptable. Some things deserve the utmost care and diligence, some things do not. Which is of course not something one should ever say during a job interview!

Anyway, I do think a job could be worthwhile both for the experience and for the money. But it's definitely not something I could see you doing full-time! I'm doing that right now, and despite still living with my parents I do find that I'm just kinda tired in the evenings. My long-term goal is to work 32-hour weeks instead of 40-hour weeks, since that one extra day off every week is such a big deal.

Anyway, now for some overall thoughts on jobs:

-The internet is full of horror stories about terrible jobs and bosses, as well as stories about very pleasant workplaces. It's honestly all a big gamble and hard to know what's going to happen going in, but pretty much anything is possible. Growing up my mom often had a lot of negative things to say about some jobs, while my dad never had anything negative to say about his job.

-I dunno if it's different in the UK, but here in the Netherlands it's pretty common for jobs to have a provisional period during the first month where the job can be immediately unilaterally terminated if it doesn't suit either the employee or employer. So I don't think you need to worry about being 'stuck' with a bad job if you're not financially dependent on the pay. And even if you do get a temporary/permanent contract, I think it's really standard that they can't make you come to work if you want to quit, I think it's only the employer who has to tell their employee when their contract is being terminated, and not vice-versa.

-Job interviews are kind of a social ritual, but the extent to which really depends on who the interview is with and what kind of company it is. I've found that the bigger the company, the more social rituals and the worse I do in interviews. Usually it's with some HR who I have zero compatibility with and who often has little experience in the job you'll actually be doing! Meanwhile, small company interviews are often with people who are very experienced in the thing you are going to do, which leads me to my next point...

-Having relevant experience matters a lot. This can be experience in a job setting, but having self-made projects also counts for a lot! A rookie coming out of university is less attractive than both an industry junior, but a self-publishing indie developer like you also has a relevant and broad skillset, which gives you a significant edge. I can't overstate the world of difference it makes to have some experience like that, something you can show that you made. It took me months to get my first job when I had no experience, but once I had some experience, I immediately was offered a job on my first interview.

I think getting a part-time job would be a good idea, if you can manage it.

I've had a job for some years now, just some plain office jobs where I do tax-related stuff, and overall it's probably less exciting than it seems.

I've had this experience myself during work, where I'm doing these work-related classes, and I'm surprised at how uninformed or dumb some of the people doing these classes are, asking super basic questions or not grasping the core aspects of the class they signed up for. Enough to make me wonder whether they got someone else to do their pre-class assignments!

I do remember in university that group work was a mixed bag, I've had some groups where we were all equally motivated and all contributed useful things to the project, but I've also had a few where I just did everything myself, and even worse, one where someone always handed in utter garbage and me and my other project member had to fix it all. The last's worse than the middle!

I think there's something to be said for not putting in everything though. After all, who are you doing it for? The company's dime? I know someone who was always was a diligent and hard worker, but the moment she was unfit for labour none of that mattered anymore. She says that she put in so much, but never really got much out of it. A lot of people these days work themselves into burn-outs, apparently even at universities or earlier...

I guess there's a healthy balance between half-assing things and straining oneself beyond what's acceptable.  Some things deserve the utmost care and diligence, some things do not. Which is of course not something one should ever say during a job interview!

Anyway, I do think a job could be worthwhile both for the experience and for the money. But it's definitely not something I could see you doing full-time! I'm doing that right now, and despite still living with my parents I do find that I'm just kinda tired in the evenings. My long-term goal is to work 32-hour weeks instead of 40-hour weeks, since that one extra day off every week is such a big deal.

Anyway, now for some overall thoughts on jobs:

-The internet is full of horror stories about terrible jobs and bosses, as well as stories about very pleasant workplaces. It's honestly all a big gamble and hard to know what's going to happen going in, but pretty much anything is possible. Growing up my mom often had a lot of negative things to say about some jobs, while my dad never had anything negative to say about his job.

-I dunno if it's different in the UK, but here in the Netherlands it's pretty common for jobs to have a provisional period during the first month where the job can be immediately unilaterally terminated if it doesn't suit either the employee or employer. So I don't think you need to worry about being 'stuck' with a bad job if you're not financially dependent on the pay. And even if you do get a temporary/permanent contract, I think it's really standard that they can't make you come to work if you want to quit, I think it's only the employer who has to tell their employee when their contract  is being terminated, and not vice-versa.

-Job interviews are kind of a social ritual, but the extent to which really depends on who the interview is with and what kind of company it is. I've found that the bigger the company, the more social rituals and the worse I do in interviews. Usually it's with some HR who I have zero compatibility with and who often has little experience in the job you'll actually be doing! Meanwhile, small company interviews are often with people who are very experienced in the thing you are going to do, which leads me to my next point...

-Having relevant experience matters a lot. This can be experience in a job setting, but having self-made projects also counts for a lot! A rookie coming out of university is less attractive than both an industry junior, but a self-publishing indie developer like you also has a relevant and broad skillset, which gives you a significant edge. I can't overstate the world of difference it makes to have some experience like that, something you can show that you made. It took me months to get my first job when I had no experience, but once I had some experience, I immediately was offered a job on my first interview.

LotBlind53~3Y

I mean online jobs don't require much social interaction at all. Maybe there's something like data entry? And can easily be found part-time as well... not that I have any first-hand experience.

MethEnjoyer7~3Y

A bit late to the party, but I agree with all of the other posters; you should absolutely find a job, even if it's not in the right field, and no matter how unfulfilling or menial it might be.

If you're employed you'll have a stable income, be forced to leave your shell and socialize, conform to a proper timetable - all things that will help you and your mental state.

That, and you've spent god knows how much time stewing in your own juice, and over time that really warps the way you see the world. Anxiety makes life, and every kind of failure, seem worse than it actually is by magnitudes - and the only way to overcome that is to crash and burn, then climb out of the wreckage and realize it isn't nearly as bad as you'd expected. Do it another million times, and maybe your doodoo monkey brain will get it.

Same with your perfectionism - you've said yourself that your friend complains about mediocre students "making it" - seeing and experiencing with your own eyes how many people can just kind of cruise by on pure mediocrity will help you actually internalize this point. Most people aren't 10s, or 9s, or even 6s, but they still make do.

A bit late to the party, but I agree with all of the other posters; you should absolutely find a job, even if it's not in the right field, and no matter how unfulfilling or menial it might be.

If you're employed you'll have a stable income, be forced to leave your shell and socialize, conform to a proper timetable - all things that will help you and your mental state.

That, and you've spent god knows how much time stewing in your own juice, and over time that really warps the way you see the world. Anxiety makes life, and every kind of failure, seem worse than it actually is by magnitudes - and the only way to overcome that is to crash and burn, then climb out of the wreckage and realize it isn't nearly as bad as you'd expected. Do it another million times, and maybe your doodoo monkey brain will get it.

Same with your perfectionism - you've said yourself that your friend complains about mediocre students "making it" - seeing and experiencing with your own eyes how many people can just kind of cruise by on pure mediocrity will help you actually internalize this point. Most people aren't 10s, or 9s, or even 6s, but they still make do.