Alora Fane

I'm still going! Potion levels! Uncertainty about how to transition between the nightmare intro and Sprouting Isle, and how the world map should work! Chrono Cross remaster!

The views counts for these posts are really dwindling to the point where I wonder who'll still be paying attention when I finally get around to the next alpha test! Hopefully it's not too far off now... I'm still working through the list of tedious remaining tasks, and I managed to get some fairly big ones out of the way this week.

One was a simple blocking reaction system that I've been meaning to add (or re-add) for ages, so that's done, finally.

Most of the rest of my time was spent chipping away at a bunch of unexciting but important bugfixes etc. Some took five minutes or less, others took days! That's how it goes.

I mentioned potions last time, and how their acquisition could feel rewarding and their use encouraged. I've added something that I hope might help with that:

Potions now have a level value. When you use one, you get glitter equal to the level x 10, then the level is increased by 1 (the levels are specific to potion types but not to characters). So the more potions you use, the more XP/currency you get. I don't know whether it'll work out, but it was easy to add and I'm curious to see what players make of it!

You might also notice a singular 'power' value there. This is similar to the power ratings I've seen in other games with multiple forms of statistical progression to summarise them in a single figure with no other use. I may or may not keep it depending on how useful it feels!

One remaining thing I need to fix is the world map, which currently looks like this:

Broken, basically, after some change I made somewhere. I need to fix it... but I keep wondering whether to even keep it at all because I don't feel happy with it.

Currently, the game begins with the nightmare in Collie's Psychepelago, and that section ends with Collie awakening astride this Mysteed behind the 'real' Savitr, who she addresses as her Master (because she's his apprentice). They exchange a few lines of dialogue, then you select a location to land - the only one available - which makes you appear on the beach in front of Pierce. You take control and can silently run around a bit, but talking to Pierce to begin the scene with him is really the only thing you can do.

An alternative that I've been considering for a long while is something like this: Collie awakens - or is awakened - in her bed in a small dorm of the Cloud-Clad Castle, the base of the Seraphim and Cherubim; kind of like Mardek waking up at the start of MARDEK 2. She might realise that she's overslept or something and that she has to report immediately to one of the 'warp rooms' in the castle. To save on asset creation, it could just fade cut to that room, where Savitr is waiting. Collie comes in, they meet for the first time, and then they warp using a crystal - or maybe it could be some kind of portal or something - and arrive on the Sprouting Isle, where Pierce spots them immediately and the battle begins.

(I also like the idea of her waking up with a book about the 'Splendid Savitr' that she fell asleep reading, to partially explain some of the dream content and hint at her real interest in him and his genuine renown.)

I could even make the entire castle - and you could wander around talking to NPCs - but that'd be much more work (unless it was just like a couple of corridors, with NPCs blocking other paths...).

For whatever reason, I started a lot of my old games with characters waking up in bed like that! I'm not sure why. Maybe I just like the feeling of being able to explore the protagonist's cozy 'home' before going off into an adventure, or something.

I'm uncertain what to do here, for a few reasons! Adding this brief castle section would create some padding between the climactic end of the intro nightmare and the action of the Pierce scene, which could be either seen as breathing room, or an annoying delay depending on your preferences. It'd mean some additional asset creation - a couple of rooms in the Cloud-Clad Castle - and some new scene writing, but it might be a less jarring transition between the dream intro and the battle with Pierce?

In a world where figmon are a thing, it seems natural to use one as a mode of transport... but I feel that'd require some additional animation where Savitr summons his Mysteed when you select to fast travel, which is something that feels annoying to make. Plus I've found the animations for them riding it over the world map awkward since I added them.

Being able to travel between crystals - or maybe stargate-like portals - directly though could be explained lore-wise as something to do with another concept - concords - which plays a role in the story/setting ('psychic links' develop between minds which can be traversed in some mental sense), and it might be snappier gameplay-wise... though I suppose I'd still need to make some way of selecting a destination which would essentially be a world map. Maybe it could just be entirely abstract, though, made up of minimaps - those grids of rooms - arranged next to one another... But that feels less immersive and doesn't give a good idea of how the lay of the land looks, so...

I'm indecisive, anyway! Whatever direction I take will require work.

I've loved world maps in games since I first encountered the one in Mario World as a child, and I do like the idea of including one in some form... Modern Pokemon games use this abstract form of world map, and I've been wondering whether to take inspiration from that:

Or maybe something more like old Final Fantasy (or what I see as 'old school JRPG') world maps, where you directly control the flying Mysteed? But I'd need to decide how the areas were represented, in that case...

I still like what I had for Taming Dreams - which was essentially similar to what I had in MARDEK - and something like that would create continuity with my other games, kind of...

Ehh, I'm unsure. Ideally I want something that's easy to make and easy to change as I need to, which feels solid to use but not a nuisance to traverse.

I spent some time yesterday re-reading ∞ this monstrous post I wrote at the end of last year summarising my 2 years of progress on Atonal Dreams ∞. Mixed feelings, again! I'm proud of where I've come with it, but I'm annoyed it's been taking so long when I intended the whole thing to be done in six months. Bothers me every day, that. All I really can do is keep at it, though.

I realised from that that it's been almost exactly a year since the last alpha test. I hoped after that that I'd only be spending a week or text fixing reported issues before another test, but that didn't happen! I feel much more secure about the mechanics and point of the game now than I did then, though.

I've still not set up my new PC!! Pfff! I'll do that tomorrow, hopefully... I would have done it last weekend, but got too distracted.

I also got the Chrono Cross remaster yesterday. Cheaper than I expected; I thought they'd try to charge at least £40, but it was only around £12, or something?

It includes a version of a game called 'Radical Dreamers', which I remember reading about with some curiosity years ago: it was a text-based prequel or something to Chrono Cross which was only released in Japan for some obscure device. Seemed odd, and I wondered how their stories could even be linked. I thought it'd be a good idea to start with that, but I ended up dying in it and didn't enjoy the text-based experience at all! Made me think about how I never read books these days because they feel so lacking compared to media which engage more senses, particularly games which are directly immersive. I feel I have to endure it to completion before I can start on Chrono Cross though. Hopefully it's not too long. Ugh.

I played Chrono Cross once many years ago, but barely remember it. When I look back, I feel like I barely understood the stories of RPGs I played in general? I don't know whether that says more about their shoddy writing or my then-undeveloped mind though; probably more the latter. I only really recall how there are tons of (mostly optional?) bizarre recruitable characters - things like a skeletal clown and a talking voodoo doll - and a system which adjusts general dialogue to fit their quirky accents (meaning they're literally interchangeable), some plot event where the protagonist inhabits the body of the antagonist which can optionally be made permanent, a major battle which requires you to play some melody I hadn't picked up on and had to check a guide for, and some kind of musical concert or something?

I loved the music in general though, and have listened to the OST way more frequently and recently than I've touched the game itself.

I'll be curious about how I perceive its story with my adult mind, and its battle mechanics after spending so much time thinking about Atonal Dreams.

13 COMMENTS

Elenaer2~2Y

In general, it all looks great so far!
I definitely feel the appeal of the "Seeing the MC's home first, as it, as long as its done well, gives a nice way to ground the player in the world they are playing/the character they are playing as, before thrusting them out into the world to deal with whatever problems the protag will have to face!
For the quick traveling, I think the crystal option sounds pretty cool- Its a basic enough concept that doesn't require as many assets (and valuable time), as well as being a fun way to show the lore's "psychic links" in a real and tangible way for the players to understand!

Falcon64~2Y

It feels weird for the potions to have a "level" value that doesn't actually affect their power! I think the concept of levels is too ingrained with vertical power progression for it to feel otherwise, at least for me.

Tobias 1115~2Y

I get that, and I wondered a bit about what term I could use instead but couldn't really come up with anything. Any ideas?

Thinking about it again, something like 'Resonance' comes to mind - so how 'used to' a certain kind of potion the party is, the more Imagination it causes it crystalise into glitter, or something... but I don't know, it feels needlessly obscure for what'll likely be a fairly minor mechanic!

Falcon64~2Y

One thing that came to mind is "experience"—feels rather straightforward and carries the appropriate connotations, maybe? Then again, "experience 1" feels weird compared to "experience level 1", and in the latter case it's kind of back to square one.

I feel like "resonance" works, but maybe something else will come to mind!

Tobias 1115~2Y

I feel like experience makes more sense conceptually, but it feels like it'd clash with the skill XP system, probably? And like it'd suggest a journey, like there's a number of XP you'd need to acquire to reach something, while Level feels - to me at least - more like a destination in itself? Though I suppose it also hints at some level cap to be eventually reached, hmm...

Other alternatives are 'rank' or 'stars' or something, but they feel synonymous with level to me.

Lordofsea19~2Y

What if potion level affects how many times you can use them in battle? You start out with only one usage per battle, but gradually work your way up to five? I imagine the restriction would prompt more strategic usage to begin with, and encourage further usage of potions.

Tobias 1115~2Y

Someone else suggested that and I was considering it myself, but after considering it a bit, I thought it'd take away too much from the primary skills mechanic. Ideally potions should be something you'd use in a pinch, or for an occasional quick boost, rather than something that'd make up the backbone of battling.

Natrythe4th10~2Y

Potion levels sounds interesting to me. I almost always end up hoarding items till the end because “I might need them later”. Levels could definitely encourage me to use them a bit more.

For transportation, teleportation/portals could be the source of a lot of plotholes if it’s not just there for player convenience. Things like if a bridge is out; instead of traversing some dungeon for a way across, just warp back to town and buy a sufficiently-sized ladder. Or whenever stakes get high and stronger enemies appear, why can’t they warp back for more reinforcements?

Tobias 1115~2Y

I was thinking that people could only travel between portals they've previously visited, which explains how the player couldn't just teleport around the island as soon as they arrive, plus it'd fit with some story stuff I have planned.

A part of it would just be suspension of disbelief for gameplay convenience, though, like with many, many gameplay things in many games that could easily have logical holes poked into them with a bit of scrutiny!

Kalin24~2Y

Most bridges are bigger than your house. Any chasm that can be covered by something I can carry, can probably be jumped. However, I would warp back to town to buy a rowboat...

A bigger question is "Can NPCs use the portals?" This affects trade and asking for help in emergencies.

Back to what to put in chests: if there isn't anything the player needs from chests, maybe just don't have them. Enemies can just drop XP and the occasional plot item.

Maniafig222~2Y

Good to hear you've been making more progress! Every step is one step closer to the next alpha, I'm looking forward to it!

There's been much ado about potions in the comment section here and in the previous one. But someone did already say you could also just not have potions. Think back to Taming Dreams, that game didn't need potions. The alpha I played also was totally beatable without potions.

As far as I can tell the only problem really solved by potions is that there has to be a way for characters to recover from being KO'ed to prevent unwinnable battles, but Taming Dreams used a system where KO'ed characters eventually restore again, but at very high excitement, making them both able to do a big pushback or get taken out again. Maybe just reuse that, and have the battle's tension rise every turn if a character is KO'ed to prevent stalemates?

While I do like the idea of Collie in the castle, it also seems like feature creep! If you do go this route, I'd just limit it only to her room. That's the only part that really matters, I think. She wakes up there, then remembers her assignment is coming up and then the scene transitions to Savitr and Collie nearing/arriving at the island?

I'm also surprised this is Collie's first time doing anything with Savitr, I was under the impression for whatever reason they at least were personally acquainted already!

I do like the Pokémon/Taming Mind-style map idea. As for seahorses or teleporters, I personally aren't too invested in the infrastructural workings of the setting!

Good to hear you've been making more progress! Every step is one step closer to the next alpha, I'm looking forward to it!

There's been much ado about potions in the comment section here and in the previous one. But someone did already say you could also just not have potions. Think back to Taming Dreams, that game didn't need potions. The alpha I played also was totally beatable without potions.

As far as I can tell the only problem really solved by potions is that there has to be a way for characters to recover from being KO'ed to prevent unwinnable battles, but Taming Dreams used a system where KO'ed characters eventually restore again, but at very high excitement, making them both able to do a big pushback or get taken out again. Maybe just reuse that, and have the battle's tension rise every turn if a character is KO'ed to prevent stalemates?
 
While I do like the idea of Collie in the castle, it also seems like feature creep! If you do go this route, I'd just limit it only to her room. That's the only part that really matters, I think. She wakes up there, then remembers her assignment is coming up and then the scene transitions to Savitr and Collie nearing/arriving at the island?

I'm also surprised this is Collie's first time doing anything with Savitr, I was under the impression for whatever reason they at least were personally acquainted already!

I do like the Pokémon/Taming Mind-style map idea. As for seahorses or teleporters, I personally aren't too invested in the infrastructural workings of the setting!

Tobias 1115~2Y

Huh, I'd completely forgotten that's how it worked in Taming Dreams! I wish I'd remembered earlier, then I might have done something like that, because being able to revive was really the main motivator for bringing potions back. I've already added them now, though, so it'd be more time and effort to remove them again and add something else, so I'll just wait and see how people feel about it during the next test. Plus I do want something to put in treasure chests, since they're already in the game too.

I was thinking just Collie's room, then either a fade-through to a warp room, or at most some corridor or something you can run through to get there. But even if I were to add the whole area, I've planned a scene in the Cloud-Clad Castle anyway - and it could be reused for Divine Dreams if I ever end up working on that - so I'd only really be moving a task forward rather than adding an entirely new one, plus I already have the 'Seraphim' music track I could use as BGM. I need to add functionality for interior areas at some point as well (it was in once, then probably removed), so... hmm.

What I had planned was that Savitr saved Collie from the Blight Wolves when she was either a child or in her mid-teens, which is why she sees him as her saviour since he literally was, but it was just a job to him so he dropped her off with some commoners in Gemsand, to her frustration. I suppose it's kind of like the trope of a superhero saving someone, so they remember the hero forever but when they reunite, the hero doesn't even remember who they are (or is that even common enough to be a trope? Ehh). So it could be interesting to show their reunion, and how it's more meaningful to her than to him, as a character-establishing scene to bridge the fantastical intro and the on-the-job exploration section. I might experiment with some ideas tomorrow.

I was thinking just Collie's room, then either a fade-through to a warp room, or at most some corridor or something you can run through to get there. But even if I were to add the whole area, I've planned a scene in the Cloud-Clad Castle anyway - and it could be reused for Divine Dreams if I ever end up working on that - so I'd only really be moving a task forward rather than adding an entirely new one, plus I already have the 'Seraphim' music track I could use as BGM. I need to add functionality for interior areas at some point as well (it was in once, then probably removed), so... hmm.

What I had planned was that Savitr saved Collie from the Blight Wolves when she was either a child or in her mid-teens, which is why she sees him as her saviour since he literally was, but it was just a job to him so he dropped her off with some commoners in Gemsand, to her frustration. I suppose it's kind of like the trope of a superhero saving someone, so they remember the hero forever but when they reunite, the hero doesn't even remember who they are (or is that even common enough to be a trope? Ehh). So it could be interesting to show their reunion, and how it's more meaningful to her than to him, as a character-establishing scene to bridge the fantastical intro and the on-the-job exploration section. I might experiment with some ideas tomorrow.

phsc57~2Y

"For whatever reason, I started a lot of my old games with characters waking up in bed like that! I'm not sure why."
I like to think that this is just the intuitive result of like, imagining things? because I mean, videogames and imagination are sort of dreamlike at least in the way I see it, maybe you wake up from reality into another one, it has some symbolic meaning, I like it.

I think all of these world maps are very cool, I think just doing whatever quickly comes to mind works best, all world maps have its charm, even vastly different ones, but what I generally like the most is the Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger style, but something as simple as MARDEKs has like a special touch, it is just so... practical and simple and not so simple I liked it, but all of these work.
One thing I'd like to see within the "JRPG genre" if I can call that is well, no world map, something like a metroidvania style for a RPG of that style, it is something I remember enjoying in MARDEK a lot, how inside of dungeons and such you had to crawl around, it is one of the best aspects of even bigger titles to this day, like Skyrim or Dark Souls (I think Dark Souls would really not work without this system, where you progressively unlock ways to move around the map but no teleporting or warping and no world map, just checkpoints you can teleport to others but that after the second half of the game, the first one you need to walk around, and it is very symbolic considering you go to the highest peak of the map, and the lowest pit of it, vastly different game styles but I think it would be interesting? idk)

Also, did you ever consider releasing something like Raider or Clarence's Big Chance on Steam? I actually think these games (most notably Clarence) have a charm to them, that even to this day if I saw just like a screenshot or like something like that, I'd be interested in checking them out, the artstyle in my opinion is cool and they look interesting, also just for the practicality of it I would probably buy them, ever considered that?

I think all of these world maps are very cool, I think just doing whatever quickly comes to mind works best, all world maps have its charm, even vastly different ones, but what I generally like the most is the Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger style, but something as simple as MARDEKs has like a special touch, it is just so... practical and simple and not so simple I liked it, but all of these work.
One thing I'd like to see within the "JRPG genre" if I can call that is well, no world map, something like a metroidvania style for a RPG of that style, it is something I remember enjoying in MARDEK a lot, how inside of dungeons and such you had to crawl around, it is one of the best aspects of even bigger titles to this day, like Skyrim or Dark Souls (I think Dark Souls would really not work without this system, where you progressively unlock ways to move around the map but no teleporting or warping and no world map, just checkpoints you can teleport to others but that after the second half of the game, the first one you need to walk around, and it is very symbolic considering you go to the highest peak of the map, and the lowest pit of it, vastly different game styles but I think it would be interesting? idk)

Also, did you ever consider releasing something like Raider or Clarence's Big Chance on Steam? I actually think these games (most notably Clarence) have a charm to them, that even to this day if I saw just like a screenshot or like something like that, I'd be interested in checking them out, the artstyle in my opinion is cool and they look interesting, also just for the practicality of it I would probably buy them, ever considered that?