Alora Fane

My hope for this week was to get this latest project to the point where I could show a video demo of the main mechanics, like the old Belief one... and that's exactly what I have to show here! Gasp!

So I've actually achieved something I set out to do for once. What a shocker.

Here's the 8-minute-long video (much shorter than the Belief one from a few years ago), which covers the essential gameplay loop, mostly battles:

Watching a video of gameplay is never the same as playing it yourself, but hopefully if you took the time to watch that you'll have got more of an idea of what I'm going for here than I can communicate in just text.

I particularly like the switching back and forth because I find it funny, though I also have some qualms about some bits which I won't mention in case other people don't notice them or feel the same way.

I'm proud of the music, too... though I've been wondering about volume lately. I typically have YouTube at something like 20% volume because most videos are obnoxiously loud otherwise, but at that volume this sounds extremely quiet. I wonder why this is; do I just prefer (and therefore produce) quieter audio because I didn't grow up listening to ear-bleedingly loud popular music like most young people seemed to, and their ears have been calibrated to that or something? Or are there things I should be doing that I'm not aware of, like calibrating for some 'standard volume' somehow?

I was uncertain about the environments last week, but a pleasing (to me) colour palette and some additional props have brought it to the point of acceptability for me. Whether or not it'll be able to compete with other stuff out there is another matter though, of course. I hope so, as the way I've got everything set up, it'll be extremely easy to add additional areas. Making this tiny one only took a few minutes.

I definitely need to add something like animations or more visual effects to battles; they're currently too static. But those things take time; I was only intending to show off the basic idea here.

I've been calling this thing 'Belief Battles' because I needed to call the files something, but I've been hoping an idea for a better title would magically come to me at some point.

Something did pop into my mind last night: Frayth, from faith (as in beliefs) + fray (as in a battle). It's six letters and everything! (A motif I've been trying to stick to for Alora Fane stuff.)

What would a title like that make you think of, though? Makes me think of something aggressive and sci-fi that's trying to be cool. Not really the silly feel I want!

I've also been giving some thought to the kind of content I'd need to make to turn this from a demo to a finished game.

The plan is for there to be a small number of shortish dungeons full of battles, and you have to convince as many people as you can to join your (custom-named) religion in order to bring your (custom-named) deity into the world (or something).

I'm thinking of basing those dungeons around the six elements I have - makes sense - which led me to wondering whether to use factions I already have while developing some additional ones.

So the Discord area might be a Blight Wolves settlement, the Abstral one might be related to the Beyond Ponderers somehow, the Harmony one might be related to the Seraphim/Cherubim (not their main 'headquarters', more like colonies or something). So those concepts could be introduced here and elaborated on in other things like Atonal Dreams.

The types of human opponents you'd battle and recruit might blend together fantasy RPG roles with real human stereotypes/archetypes.

I'll need to do some concept stuff.

So what next?

I want to post something on Reddit, maybe about this game (to practice); I've been thinking of exactly what, and where. Maybe I'll mention I was the MARDEK dev somewhere first, to gauge if I could use that to stand out at all. Unsure.

There are also a couple of unrelated things I want to write blog posts about, but we'll see how that goes.

I suppose those will be my tasks for next week. Though I also enjoy working on this game, so I'll likely do something related to it, too!

If you watched the video, is it something that interests you at all? Anything you particularly like, or would prefer to be different?

6 COMMENTS

Maniafig222~1Y

Congrats on getting the concept video out!

I've been following your blogs about the idea so far, even from way back when you made the first Belief demo, so the concepts are already quite familiar with me!

I think the side swapping thing will always be the biggest appeal of this type of game, it's really unique, I can't think of any other sort of game where that happens, except as like a one-off boss gimmick.

There's definitely still some things missing, like the effectiveness predictor. The previous Belief video also had character animate depending on how effective skills were, which I thought was nice.

I do think the little dialogue quips get repetitive fast, there need to be more variants and they shouldn't play every single time, that sort of thing is a common complaint people have. [LINK]

The biggest difference is definitely that battles now take a 2v2 form, rather than the old style, and that there's a permanent party system. The old system had battles that felt more dynamic, fraught and overwhelming, whereas the new one is more structured and ordered.

I think the old system actually fits the concept of the game better, social interactions are a very chaotic thing, after all. I also felt like the second fight definitely dragged near the end, as it goes from a 4v6 to a 2v10, but rather than feeling like the odds are stacked against you and you're on the verge of losing, it just feels like there's more busywork to finish before the battle's over. It never really feels like you're accomplishing anything, which is what the whole side changing system should be doing.

The permanent party system also means you'll presumably start most battles with a full party, rather than whatever the battle parameters would be. That does streamline how much you can do, like battles where it's 1 versus a crowd, or you start with some NPCs already on your side. It also means every enemy needs to be balanced for player use!

The gameplay elements otherwise are definitely an evolution from the older Belief system, you've learned from Atonal Dreams and it shows in the UI and such.

I think Belief Battles is fine as a name, it's descriptive, compelling and suitably silly. It's more eyecatching than "Frayth". Frayth to me sounds like the name of some high-minded abstract indie game about religious trauma or somesuch.

It'd be nice to get out a quick game, to keep the scale and scope small. Maybe if it does well you can make an official editor, too.

I could share it with some non-FH related circles and see what feedback they give, what do you think?

Congrats on getting the concept video out!

I've been following your blogs about the idea so far, even from way back when you made the first Belief demo, so the concepts are already quite familiar with me!

I think the side swapping thing will always be the biggest appeal of this type of game, it's really unique, I can't think of any other sort of game where that happens, except as like a one-off boss gimmick.

There's definitely still some things missing, like the effectiveness predictor. The previous Belief video also had character animate depending on how effective skills were, which I thought was nice.

I do think the little dialogue quips get repetitive fast, there need to be more variants and they shouldn't play every single time, that sort of thing is a common complaint people have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=688z-4SWxOQ

The biggest difference is definitely that battles now take a 2v2 form, rather than the old style, and that there's a permanent party system. The old system had battles that felt more dynamic, fraught and overwhelming, whereas the new one is more structured and ordered.

I think the old system actually fits the concept of the game better, social interactions are a very chaotic thing, after all. I also felt like the second fight definitely dragged near the end, as it goes from a 4v6 to a 2v10, but rather than feeling like the odds are stacked against you and you're on the verge of losing, it just feels like there's more busywork to finish before the battle's over. It never really feels like you're accomplishing anything, which is what the whole side changing system should be doing.

The permanent party system also means you'll presumably start most battles with a full party, rather than whatever the battle parameters would be. That does streamline how much you can do, like battles where it's 1 versus a crowd, or you start with some NPCs already on your side. It also means every enemy needs to be balanced for player use!

The gameplay elements otherwise are definitely an evolution from the older Belief system, you've learned from Atonal Dreams and it shows in the UI and such.

I think Belief Battles is fine as a name, it's descriptive, compelling and suitably silly. It's more eyecatching than "Frayth". Frayth to me sounds like the name of some high-minded abstract indie game about religious trauma or somesuch.

It'd be nice to get out a quick game, to keep the scale and scope small. Maybe if it does well you can make an official editor, too.

I could share it with some non-FH related circles and see what feedback they give, what do you think?

Tobias 1115~1Y

I was wondering if, were I to actually get around to posting about this on Reddit, I'd get comments like "it looks the same as [other game I've never heard of that did it better]" with the side-swapping, so if it's more unique then... well, I wonder. I like that and hope people would accept it, but I also learned from Memody: Sindrel Song that people prefer more familiar things. Maybe this is familiar enough though.

I want to have characters nod or shake their heads when 'hit', or more - I find the idea of them recoiling as if physically struck funny - though that's one of many things I still need to add.

I'm unsure whether to add an effectiveness predictor again though. Maybe it'd just make things seem annoyingly more complicated than they are? Something I'll need to wait for feedback to decide.

I get how repetitive voiced lines can get annoying in fast-paced action games, but I wonder whether it'd feel any different with text lines (of which characters would have several per skill they could use). I also wonder whether allowing the player to edit their own might affect anything. We'll see.

Having played around with both this and the old Belief system (and Atonal Dreams) for ages, I definitely prefer the 2v2 with backups over full parties acting! Though it's also hard to gauge how anything will feel to play in the long term from so short of a demo. Makes me wonder how much testing of any battle system games go through before deciding it's fine and worth building the rest of the game around...

Interesting that you'd describe the swapping back and forth as 'busywork'. I get what you mean there, though it makes me wonder how much of gameplay in games in general could be dismissed as that depending on your perspective. A big part of that might be due to watching the video rather than playing it though. Personally I felt the swapping back and forth was fairly tense while testing, but I can't even pay attention to the video.

I've thought about what it'd mean to be starting battles with a full party. Makes me think of how different Pokemon is before you build a full team, though. I suppose it's yet another thing that'll need to be figured out over time.

I'm still unsure about the title. 'Frayth' is growing on me, but... unsure.

It'd probably be a good idea to get some strangers' thoughts eventually... though I want to get some more stuff ready before that and posting to Reddit etc.

I want to have characters nod or shake their heads when 'hit', or more - I find the idea of them recoiling as if physically struck funny - though that's one of many things I still need to add.

I'm unsure whether to add an effectiveness predictor again though. Maybe it'd just make things seem annoyingly more complicated than they are? Something I'll need to wait for feedback to decide.

I get how repetitive voiced lines can get annoying in fast-paced action games, but I wonder whether it'd feel any different with text lines (of which characters would have several per skill they could use). I also wonder whether allowing the player to edit their own might affect anything. We'll see.

Having played around with both this and the old Belief system (and Atonal Dreams) for ages, I definitely prefer the 2v2 with backups over full parties acting! Though it's also hard to gauge how anything will feel to play in the long term from so short of a demo. Makes me wonder how much testing of any battle system games go through before deciding it's fine and worth building the rest of the game around...

Interesting that you'd describe the swapping back and forth as 'busywork'. I get what you mean there, though it makes me wonder how much of gameplay in games in general could be dismissed as that depending on your perspective. A big part of that /might/ be due to watching the video rather than playing it though. Personally I felt the swapping back and forth was fairly tense while testing, but I can't even pay attention to the video.

I've thought about what it'd mean to be starting battles with a full party. Makes me think of how different Pokemon is before you build a full team, though. I suppose it's yet another thing that'll need to be figured out over time.

I'm still unsure about the title. 'Frayth' is growing on me, but... unsure.

It'd probably be a good idea to get some strangers' thoughts eventually... though I want to get some more stuff ready before that and posting to Reddit etc.

Noppe5~1Y

Idk why but I find the concept of this nonsense interaction really funny: [LINK]

As for the gameplay, could battles drag on with characters endlessly being pingponged? Is there anything which pushes a battle to end?

Tobias 1115~1Y

I'm glad you found comedy in the absurdity of it, like I intended!

Most battles wouldn't drag out that long; I actually recorded this one several times and chose the one with the most converting to stress the point (though maybe something shorter would have been a better idea).

Hard to know without more game to test though.

Kalin24~1Y

Your comment about volume was interesting. I also like things more quiet than most people.

I keep my laptop volume at 24. Games have sound effects at 20-100 and everything else (music, voice, ambient) at 0. The first is information, everything else is distracting.

YouTube is played at 100, and if it's someone streaming a game I'll raise the laptop volume to 60-70 else I can't understand what they're saying (because they don't mute the music).

Any time I'm not watching a video the radio will be on at (checks) 2.33. Loud enough to hear the lyrics of the songs I like, quiet enough to ignore everything else.

Tobias 1115~1Y

Do you have some sensory irregularities or something? I vaguely recall someone mentioning something like that ages ago, but I'm not sure if it was you. That seems like a fairly drastic relationship with sound though, which is disheartening to me as a composer since it means you'd just mute my music! Personally I'd find a game without music hollow and completely unappealing, so it's interesting how differently we can experience the world.