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Beliefrayth - Structure Musings
1 year ago1,064 words
In an attempt to quell the overwhelming torrent of suggestions coming from the previous post - or at the very least to cement some Monday morning brainstorming - here are some thoughts/decisions about what to do with this still-yet-unnamed game...

I was planning to get back to Atonal Dreams this morning, but after thinking about it over the weekend, I felt I'd put enough time and work into this other thing that I should at least try and sort out this tangle before putting it aside and then potentially never getting back to it due to uncertainty about its direction. Plus it's easier to stick with something than it is to make the mental switch to a different project, especially one I haven't touched in months (kind of like returning to playing a game you last played months ago rather than trying to finish one you just played yesterday).

As I said in ∞ the previous post ∞, while I'm fairly happy with the art style and battle mechanics, I'm unsure about how to make an actual game out of them, as some experimenting with my intended direction turned out less satisfying to play than I'd imagined. I described some potential game structures in that post, though none seemed perfect.

I wouldn't say this new product of a couple of hours of brainstorming is anything like some perfectly decided plan, but here's what I have anyway:



You'd start the game in the hub area, the temple; perhaps you'd literally be an avatar created by the deity, which would speak to you in your mind. I don't really need to bother with some kind of flower attached to the head or anything.

Areas would now be smaller; a grid of 3x3 rooms instead of 4x4 (or 5x5 as in the earliest stages of development). This means that there can be a central room (it bothered me with a 4x4 grid that there was no centre), which in the temple would contain some kind of plant which would be the deity's physical form (kind of). It'd grow larger and more elaborate as you progressed through the game.

The temple would have six flowerbeds (like the ones in Atonal Dreams) around its edges, though all but one would be closed buds at the start. Each would lead to an element-themed island.

By resting on the one open flowerbed, you'd be transported to the Viscereal island. Again the area would be 3x3 rooms - that is, quite small - and would contain three levels in the form of buildings that lead to a separate areas/dungeons. There'd also be a boss level building which would unlock after the others had been completed.

I'm more familiar with older games than newer ones, so I'd compare this structure to that of the Spyro games. There's some choice about which order to tackle the short levels in, but you progress through the hubs linearly, meaning it's much, much easier to balance things.

The shorter levels could also explore specific concepts related to the element, with some CBC-like absurdity. For example, one of the Viscereal levels could be an 'ordinary house' where several of the battles include multiple instances of 'Husband' or 'Wife' or 'Grandmother' or whatever archetypes.

Having these smaller, more focused areas should make things a whole lot easier to design. I could make one a day or something.

Music might be somewhat tricky, as I'd prefer each level to have its own music rather than sharing a track between all elemental areas, but I'm actually excited about the challenge there. I'd probably have a single theme for each element, played in a simple form in the hub with each level an appropriately stylised variation of that theme. I've had the urge to compose recently, but nothing in particular to compose, so I like at least playing around with this. And perhaps only bosses would have battle music, with the other areas' themes playing through battles in those places.

Character archetype designs would also be based on the levels rather than the element as a whole, which should make them less difficult to come up with.

I don't know that I'll bother having a story with other named characters. Or perhaps I could have two or three equivalent to Pokemon's rival and champion characters, with one being the character you face as a Final Boss so there's some direction and meaning to your journey.



I've yet to decide on the exact order of the elemental areas that you'd visit, or the sub-levels that each might contain. Here are some thoughts so far:

1. Viscereal
-- Ordinary House, with a homely family feel to it
-- Shop/Market, maybe like a low-tech fantasy version of a supermarket
-- Gym/Resort, with sporty types and a beach for the Babes and Hunks
-- Boss: Mayor's Office, with a political + office feel

2. Abstral
-- School/University, full of Students and Professors
-- Laboratory, full of lab-coat-clad Scientists
-- (Some kind of spiritual place, but what? Meditation hall?)
-- Boss: Saucer Cult Temple, who worship the downed UFO

3. Gravitoom
-- Theatre, with pretentious poets and artistes and such
-- (Psych Ward?)
-- (Museum?)
-- Boss: Catacombs, with 'undead'

4. Levitality
-- Concert, or music festival
-- (Movie set, with celebrities and such?)
-- (Nude beach, or general hippie/freedom resort?)
-- (Boss: Party, festival?)

5. Harmony
-- I'm unsure about these!
-- ???
-- ???
-- Boss: Seraph's... castle?

6. Discord
-- Hunting Grounds, like a forest where they hunt for prey to eat
-- ???
-- ???
-- Boss: Chief's Tent

I don't know if those register as spoilers!! or anything, since they're so vague and subject to change at this point. Some are more clear to me than others, so I'll need to devote some time to brainstorming ideas. I'm very interested to hear yours, though, if you have any, O two or three people who read these!



Also, I want to post on some indie-dev-related subreddits as I'm no longer anxious about the idea and do want to use this game to practise promotion, but I get the feeling they're full of teens and people in their early twenties, around the age I was when I made MARDEK... though Reddit as a whole feels like that, and I feel like a creepy old man for trying to interact with the communities there. HMM.

9 COMMENTS

MontyCallay101~1Y
Great that you got over your anxiety over posting on Reddit! Only to then bring up your anxiety about not fitting in :P I'm sure that once you post, you'll find that these things matter less than you think, and you'll eventually figure out which subreddits are the best ones to post in. It'll probably be a continuous process of improvement, but I don't doubt you can do it!

In picking a project to work on, honestly you should work on whatever you think you can show to people soonest! It's a shame if that turns out not to be Atonal Dreams, but you wanted a project explicitly to gauge interest in your work and build your promotion skills, and the best project for that would be whichever one's remaining development would be the fastest. If you can make a proof-of-concept demo for "Beliefrayth" (though I'm sure that name can be workshopped) and you think people might like it, put it on your website to download and share that!
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Tobias 1115~1Y
It's less anxiety about not fitting in, and more like... embarrassment about being somewhere that doesn't match where I should be in life? The posts in the communities I've seen tend to get few views and the work usually isn't a very high quality (usually it's primitive-looking 2D platformers which makes me assume the creators are teenagers), so it's a feeling of "is there any point posting here?" more than "they'll reject me". Similar to how it felt being at uni at age when other people are in marriages and careers, I suppose.

I get the feeling a lot of people dabble with games when young and then sensibly give it up when it doesn't work out, as I did, but I got sort of pushed back into it and haven't had the mental energy to change course again.

This... whatever I end up deciding to call this thing seems like something I can finish more quickly and which I care less about so I wouldn't be as devastated if nothing comes of it. It's frustrating that working on this means not working on Atonal Dreams though. I want to finish both before the AI vs Aliens war destroys us all or whatever.
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GrayNine35~1Y
Maybe a restaurant could work as a sub-level? I'm not exactly the creative type, but as for your Reddit worries: Googling a few demographic surveys, it looks like 60% of gamers are under the age of 35, and 35% of Reddit users are 30+ (not a one to one comparison, I know, but the age brackets don't quite line up). This means Reddit does skew towards an audience a little younger than gaming in general, but not by much. My anxiety also manifests itself when I have to talk with people significantly younger than myself, so I understand how you're probably feeling, but I think it might be a necessary evil. I think One Step From Eden is a good indie game to look up to- the developer had no previous games to have a following from, had a successful Kickstarter, released their game without too much scope creep, and it sold pretty well. The developer gained a lot of traction on /r/PixelArt and /r/IndieGaming - this being their most popular post on the latter:

[LINK]

I think the way they marketed themselves was a huge factor in the game's success. If you're still worried about /r/IndieGaming being "for" teenagers making their first platformer, keep in mind that Reddit's default sorting (hot) heavily favors newer posts; try the "top" tab if you want to see more professional works and how they benefit from putting themselves out there.
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Tobias 1115~1Y
I don't even go to restaurants, I'm weird about food (I can't stand the sound of eating due to a thing called misophonia, for one thing), and I find being in busy places stressful, so a restaurant is probably one of the worst options for me!

It's not exactly that I'm anxious about interacting with the younger people in the game dev spaces, but more that I feel I should have moved past that stage by now and I feel embarrassed that I haven't. Though I also often wonder whether sticking with the games dev thing means I'll get older and older while my audience will be stuck as young boys, which is something that's bothered me since the MARDEK days when 13-year-olds joined Fig Hunter when I wanted to be appealing to people closer to my own age.

Thanks for linking to that example, but... Its gameplay and aesthetic style look closer to recent trends than my own work does, which must have given it an advantage (and also brings up thoughts in me like "my thing is different and therefore will fail!!!"). So I'm not surprised from just a brief look at it that it did alright.

I'd be curious to know how much posts like that helped, though. I looked it up on Steam and see it has a publisher and was part of the Humble Bundle, which I'm guessing are the biggest factors in its success, though perhaps they found the dev through posts like that one? The important thing is just making people aware of your existence, after all. Then networking and all that, which I've been actively avoiding but I know I'll have to face it if I want to make any money from this.

That post is from r/IndieGaming, which I thought was more player-focused than r/indiegames and posting dev work was inappropriate, but I was wrong, and it seems to be the more popular of the two too. So I'll consider posting there. It looks absolutely godawful for some reason though (busy background image, black text on an almost-black background; though I'm guessing from that link you're using old Reddit and see it differently), which makes me not want to post there!

...Checking the Top posts from the last month (which is what I usually do when finding an unfamiliar sub), I'm reminded of why I generally avoid looking at indie game subs at all. The top post is this one, [LINK] , about a beautiful-looking game from a solo dev whose previous game I've already played (and wrote this post about: [LINK] ). Makes me worry my own efforts will look like crap by comparison.

But I'll never know unless I actually post something, which I really should do soon...

(I know I should be inspired rather than discouraged by seeing others' impressive work, but there are all kinds of ways my mind should work but it doesn't.)
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GrayNine35~1Y
Humble wasn't announced to be involved with publishing until February 2020, a month before release - they probably did help near- and post-launch marketing and sales, but the game already had quite the following beforehand (including the Kickstarter). As for how well your game would "fit in," I think a lot of 3D indies tend to go for a cute art style, usually with faces that are little more than a texture and sometimes a nose- Haven Park, Ooblets, Frogun (which tries to go for a nostalgia angle, but the faces are reminiscent of Frayth). I think that if you made a post, Frayth's art style would be visually familiar enough for users to resonate with, and the unique gameplay would generate interest. Putting yourself out there is hard, and I know how some of the less savory members of the internet have commented on your self-promotion in the past, but I think once you make your first post about game development on Reddit it'll only be easier for you from there.
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Tobias 1115~1Y
Since I don't play as many indies as I should, I hadn't heard of those three you mentioned and looked them up on Steam. I'd say my art skills are probably at an equivalent or maybe higher level than those examples, which is encouraging, though I seem to be really struggling at the moment to find the motivation to make environments that I'm happy with, and environments seem to be what stands out in screenshots, which is a bit of a pain.

Have people commented on my self-promotion? I suppose there are annoying troll comments on this blog, but it's the trauma of having tenaciously malicious stalkers and such years ago that's responsible for most of my posting reluctance. Like the difference between being scared of the world because someone shouted an insult from you across the street once versus waking up in the middle of the night to someone breaking into your house and shooting your pet dog. The latter is more difficult to get over.

I just read through some of my old blog posts, after digging one up to link to. It's embarrassing that I was saying this "I'm starting to get better at posting on Reddit" stuff in one from a year ago! But I've not got much better since then. I also read my 'review' of OMNO, and noted at the end that the dev had a history of working a proper job in the industry, plus he mentioned his partner and children and the value of their support in the credits. I feel that factors like those - the personal life side of things - are way more important than we ever really think of them as being. I'm struggling because I don't have that stable footing, but it's so much harder to fix than technical issues, frustratingly.
0
GrayNine35~1Y
By the way, just double checked the subreddit- it does have this rule on the sidebar:

"Your account must be at least 1 week old and have an actual posting history. Until that time, you may comment, just not submit anything."

Since you'd be using a separate Reddit account than the one you're currently using, that means you'd need to make your second account a week ahead of making a post, and you'd have to make a few comments.
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Tobias 1115~1Y
Huh? Did I say I'd be using a separate Reddit account?
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GrayNine35~1Y
I'd imagine you'd want to if you wanted to make sure your non-gamedev posts continued to only get responses from people unaware of your works.
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