Alora Fane

I had the fifth session of the Counselling Skills course yesterday. I left before it ended, and I'm unsure whether or not to continue with the other 10 sessions.

So that's a disappointment, I suppose.

Also somewhat disappointing is that there was an anxiety meetup group yesterday that I planned to go to, but - after thinking about it for ages - I decided not to bother. Mostly because it'd take an hour on the bus both there and back, lasted for two hours, and then by the time I got back I'd need to go to the class, which all felt like too much considering how rarely I leave my house these days.

I've been to a few anxiety help groups before and imagine it would likely been the same: a dozen or less people sitting in a circle while a counsellor essentially lectures the group about the brain's amygdala (there are two amygdalae, one in each hemisphere, but they always speak as if it's this singular thing because their knowledge of neuroanatomy is likely very shallow), and how it used to protect us from tigers in the caveman days, but we don't have to worry about those threats anymore so now we need to learn how to control it with breathing exercises. Maybe it would have involved eating a raisin mindfully as well. Probably little to no opportunity to interact with anyone else there, and since it was at like noon I expected they'd be mostly retirees anyway (since younger people would be in work).

Maybe had I gone I would have been surprised, but I didn't, so... oh well.

I did go to the Counselling class, though. I arrived early and sat by myself in the corner, and the others came in in pairs or groups and sat together, chatting about their jobs, partners, children, connections they seemed to have formed with one another. Normal stuff, which I can't relate to. Then there was a lecture for like two hours, throughout which I noticed anxiety sensations worse than I've felt in ages.

My mind went over memories of this study about the neurological pain of social exclusion, which I mentioned in a previous post:

And memories of how back in PE back in school, sometimes we'd get into teams, with a leader chosen first, then everyone else would line up and the leaders would take turns picking players for their side. I was always chosen last, with either awkward laughs and frustration in the poor leader's voice. I hated PE, so fair enough - I would have been no use to a team and would rather just not be there - but this was the case in academic projects too. When we got into groups, everyone would team up with their friends, then a few stragglers would gradually be accepted into groups before I was left, often with the teacher telling a group they had to include me, to their barely-restrained disgust. Then they'd talk among one another while ignoring me while I did all the work and got us an A.

I know now that kind of the thing was the result of growing up with poor, fragmented care, severe neglect, but it's frustrating that it's been a lifetime since I escaped that environment but it left its permanent mark on my mind and continues to influence my relationship with the world and others.

During a break, I went and had a short talk with the tutor (while everyone else cheerily chatted among one another) about how I just wasn't fitting in and might just leave. I'd mentioned to him some previous week that I was thinking about it, so this hadn't come out of nowhere, though he did seem disappointed. Empathetic towards my struggles, at least when blatantly presented like this, though I couldn't help but think about how I'd been silently screaming with my body language that I wasn't well and this whole class of counsellors-to-be didn't show any curiosity or concern. Such are people, I suppose.

(One thing he mentioned during the lecture was introspection, and how it was 'so strange' a thing to do, and something others in the class might not really have done before. That he'd speak of it as strange was strange to me. Do 'normal' people just drift through their ordinary lives without wondering constantly about why they do what they do, think how they think?)

He said he'd welcome me back next week if I decided to return, or understand if I decided not to. I said I might try again in future, maybe do some work on my mental health issues in the meantime, though I'm not sure what exactly I even can do at this point.

I'm really not sure whether it's worth going back or not. I could see it as progress towards getting out of my shell, but I end up dreading it all week and feel worse when I'm there, and those feelings only seem to be intensifying rather than fading with practice.

It'd be a different story had I gone there and there'd been someone on a similar wavelength to me who I could have developed some kind of meaningful connection with, who was happy to see me and who I was happy to see. Ultimately it's just luck of the draw whether such a thing comes up or not, and the hand I was dealt this time wasn't favourable, as usual.

I was more fortunate when I got my Psychology bachelor's, and met a couple of like-minded people I quickly developed close connections with in the first week. The issue isn't purely about me being inept; connections are a mutual thing, and both parties have to be receptive and interested.

Speaking of luck, I replied to a post on Reddit yesterday morning and mentioned that I've never been employed and summarised the life events that explain why. I've shared this same story summary a few times, and it tends to be mostly or entirely ignored. This time, my comment got over 100 upvotes and several replies. Right place, right time. Luck. So much is down to that.

People seemed surprisingly supportive and impressed by what I described, and suggested oh-so-practically-realistic things like forming an artists' commune in the real world to connect with like-minded people (which I actually like in theory, though wouldn't have a clue how to do it and know from experience it'd be very stressful due to malicious people).

Someone mentioned they knew gifted game developers who went straight from uni into 200k USD jobs, and had no social or general life skills so they basically had carers to look after their real-world needs. Fascinating to hear - if true - though again I think about luck, finding the right connections, attracting the attention of the right people, living in the right place - likely a big city - where those opportunities would come up at all.

Someone else mentioned (though I already kind of knew this) how neurodivergence is the norm among technicians, programmers, and the like - tech nerds - and how I'd likely find my people among them were I to get a games dev job. It's sad that running Fig Hunter spoiled that for me, though. Now I see those types of people as essentially threatening due to their lack of tact, scoffing at emotional expression, turning everything into some logical debate and all that. I insist I'm not 'techy-minded' to distance myself from it all; instead, I say, I'm a sensitive artist who's far more interested in people than in things like gadgets and tech (which is true).

(I also went to uni twice for games dev but dropped out after a year each time, due to disconnection from my peers, so it's not like I've never tried it.)

But who would be 'my people'? Nerds, artists, and psychologists all tend to be weirdos (tending towards one end of the Openness spectrum), though their other traits set them apart from one another. I like soft, agreeable artists and psychologists, and I feel the people I would get along best with - and have in the past - would be shy, conflict-averse creative people with a deep interest in exploring and understanding their mental health issues... though I don't know where to find them while avoiding the more aggressive ones who'd regard my patheticness with disgust. Or even if I found such people, would they like or want me?

Age is relevant, too. I'll be 36 next week, but I'm still mentally stuck in my late teens or early twenties, since that's the last time I had real-world experience (or at uni when I was 27, my peers were in that age range). What seems like my ideal kind of person is someone who'd likely see me as some creepy old man, and I wish I'd had more life experiences so that ideal would have been reshaped by them instead of remaining so pathetically stagnant.

I don't know. I envy people who've never struggled to find people to connect with in ways they find satisfying and enriching. Who've found partners, friend groups, lived lives.

Every time I find some new creator online, they inevitably mention their partner. Sigh.

I probably need to decide on how I can make enough money to survive, sooner rather than later, though considering how poorly this small, simple Counselling course has gone for me, I seriously doubt I could survive in a normal work environment where I felt I didn't fit in with anyone there.

I've been really enjoying creative work I've been doing recently though - I'm looking forward to sharing more of it - to the point where I wake up excited to do it and resent having to leave the house because I'd rather be doing work.

I joined the Patreon subreddit a while back, and occasionally see posts from there where people speak of making high five-figure yearly salaries from that platform alone. This is suprising to me, since whenever I see a creator (youtubers, artists, etc) mention their Patreon, I check it, and almost all of them have fewer patrons than me (and I don't have that many). More often than not they have zero, even if their creator account has tens of thousands of subscribers.

I have no idea what these successful people do though; I get the impression most of them make niche porn art, usually fetish stuff, often involving furries. I don't want to do that.

I'm planning to ask the community, see if anything they say might give me ideas about how I can do more with that.

I'm quite eager to talk about some creative developments I made this week which may or may not be something I could make and release more regularly. Something I've talked about before that's finally come to fruition. I'll save that until the weekend (unless I get TOO eager and post on my Patreon before then, which is a possibility).

13 COMMENTS

Slothboy2531~7M

Man, I want to support you as much as I possibly can with a stranger on the internet, but I sometimes feel like I’m going insane reading these. I feel your pain and sympathise greatly, but almost every week it’s just more self-pity and excuses here. You’ve posted almost the exact same thing (including the lecture on social isolation and your PE trauma) a few weeks ago.

I’m ending up with the impression that your loneliness is less a matter of traumatic avoidance, but more a revealed preference. You go into these meetups expecting to find your *soulmate* when it would already be helpful to build any kind of connection at all and relate to others. If you want to find a close friend or two eventually (even if you need them to be exclusively female) you'd want to change up your life to bring you into contact with people more regularly as a whole. Instead, you’re making excuses ("I'm too old, so it's too hard", etc.) and going down the path of working on your creative projects from home – a path that, I think we can say at this point, experience has shown is not suited for you when it comes to producing a reliable creative output.

I believe you about your pain and avoidance and trauma and learned helplessness and so on and so forth, and I have the greatest of sympathies, but objectively speaking you need to find a way to break out of that inertia. I hope you do.

I’m ending up with the impression that your loneliness is less a matter of traumatic avoidance, but more a revealed preference. You go into these meetups expecting to find your *soulmate* when it would already be helpful to  build any kind of connection at all and relate to others. If you want to find a close friend or two eventually (even if you need them to be exclusively female) you'd want to change up your life to bring you into contact with people more regularly as a whole. Instead, you’re making excuses ("I'm too old, so it's too hard", etc.) and going down the path of working on your creative projects from home – a path that, I think we can say at this point, experience has shown is not suited for you when it comes to producing a reliable creative output.

I believe you about your pain and avoidance and trauma and learned helplessness and so on and so forth, and I have the greatest of sympathies,  but objectively speaking you need to find a way to break out of that inertia. I hope you do.

Tobias 1115~7M

If it's frustrating hearing about mental illness, imagine how it is living with it.

Or I suppose it's difficult for us to truly empthise with people whose issues are so alien to us. I know I'd struggle if someone talked about their OCD, anorexia, gender dysphoria, or being stuck in an abusive relationship or something. The solutions to all their problems seem so clear, and yet they just don't take the 'obvious' steps towards them as I might (be able to) in their shoes. So frustrating!

I'm trying what I can. But 'what I can' isn't the same as what might be a possibility for you or others. And not every attempt is going to be a success. It's a slow process, and absolutely not a guaranteed success. Many, many people fall into homelessness or worse because their minds wouldn't allow them to engage with the world in as healthy a way as those more fortunate are easily able to.

Concerningly, I don't remember writing about the PE stuff before. I seem to have worrying memory issues these days - in the rare conversations I have with friends, I'm constantly asking "have I told you this already?" because I genuinely can't recall - which are either due to age, mental illness, or the brain surgery (I made Memody - a memory game - due to the potential for exactly this), or a combination.

Actually, I do recall that I wrote a post about cognitive impairment a while back, on which you left a comment like "cognitive impairment level: didn't make MARDEK IV" or something. Which I only remember because it's been lingering in the awaiting approval inbox.

If it's frustrating hearing about mental illness, imagine how it is living with it.

Or I suppose it's difficult for us to truly empthise with people whose issues are so alien to us. I know I'd struggle if someone talked about their OCD, anorexia, gender dysphoria, or being stuck in an abusive relationship or something. The solutions to all their problems seem so clear, and yet they just don't take the 'obvious' steps towards them as I might (be able to) in their shoes. So frustrating!

I'm trying what I can. But 'what I can' isn't the same as what might be a possibility for you or others. And not every attempt is going to be a success. It's a slow process, and absolutely not a guaranteed success. Many, many people fall into homelessness or worse because their minds wouldn't allow them to engage with the world in as healthy a way as those more fortunate are easily able to.

Concerningly, I don't remember writing about the PE stuff before. I seem to have worrying memory issues these days - in the rare conversations I have with friends, I'm constantly asking "have I told you this already?" because I genuinely can't recall - which are either due to age, mental illness, or the brain surgery (I made Memody - a memory game - due to the potential for exactly this), or a combination.

Actually, I do recall that I wrote a post about cognitive impairment a while back, on which you left a comment like "cognitive impairment level: didn't make MARDEK IV" or something. Which I only remember because it's been lingering in the awaiting approval inbox.

Slothboy2531~7M

I'd thought the "cognitive impairment level: didn't make MARDEK IV" comment would have been clear as ironic, given how over-the-top it is - I can't imagine anyone actually suggesting that you're cognitively impaired for not following up on a 15 year old flash game series, even if there's been demands like that in the past, which I was making light of. But intent doesn't always come across well in text, and perhaps it hits too close to home after all the actual trolling you've experienced in the past.

I don't mean to belittle your struggle. At the same time, it's a fine line to walk - the fact that you have a mental illness is obviously an impairment, but, on the meta-level, I wonder if you have a somewhat totalising attitude that feels especially unproductive - the whole "would you tell a drowning man to just 'help himself'???" kind of thing, combined with some level of magical thinking in the realm of "I just need to make X happen, then I'll be able to handle it better".

Perhaps that's natural given how legitimately impairing your mental problems are, I don't know, but you're so dismissive of any kind of therapeutic approach - "I know much more than any of them anyway"; "I've tried all of that and it never worked", despite only ever seeming to have gone for basic counselling. Surely, if you can take a bus to a class that's an hour away, you can take a bus to see an actual clinical psychologist/psychiatrist, even if there's a waiting period?

I'm actually quite sorry about making light of the cognitive impairment thing at all, seeing your memory issues - you've actually brought up your PE memories twice before, in both [LINK] and [LINK]

Anyway. Even as I acknowledge my own limitations in being able to fully understand your situation, I hope to be able to check back at some point and not see the same cycle having repeated itself again - still working from home, having started a new project ("It's short and episodic, just a proof-of-concept that I'll be done with quickly") that's already de-facto been abandoned in favour of your latest personal interest (that's too "private" to share) perhaps including a minor existential crisis over a lack of positive response to dramatically re-designing the original concept/world halfway through. It just doesn't feel very sustainable.

I don't mean to belittle your struggle. At the same time, it's a fine line to walk - the fact that you have a mental illness is obviously an impairment, but, on the meta-level, I wonder if you have a somewhat totalising attitude that feels especially unproductive - the whole "would you tell a drowning man to just 'help himself'???" kind of thing, combined with some level of magical thinking in the realm of "I just need to make X happen, then I'll be able to handle it better".

Perhaps that's natural given how legitimately impairing your mental problems are, I don't know, but you're so dismissive of any kind of therapeutic approach - "I know much more than any of them anyway"; "I've tried all of that and it never worked", despite only ever seeming to have gone for basic counselling. Surely, if you can take a bus to a class that's an hour away, you can take a bus to see an actual clinical psychologist/psychiatrist, even if there's a waiting period?

I'm actually quite sorry about making light of the cognitive impairment thing at all, seeing your memory issues - you've actually brought up your PE memories twice before, in both https://alorafane.com/blog/621 and https://alorafane.com/blog/622.

Anyway. Even as I acknowledge my own limitations in being able to fully understand your situation, I hope to be able to check back at some point and not see the same cycle having repeated itself again - still working from home, having started a new project ("It's short and episodic, just a proof-of-concept that I'll be done with quickly") that's already de-facto been abandoned in favour of your latest personal interest (that's too "private" to share) perhaps including a minor existential crisis over a lack of positive response to dramatically re-designing the original concept/world halfway through. It just doesn't feel very sustainable.

ThePretentiousGamer11~7M

There's a certain solace in creation, in bringing something into existence that wasn't there before. In the vast expanse of the internet, there will undoubtedly be souls that resonate with what you put out there. As for the rest - the social labyrinth with its minotaurs and mirages - well, may you find a map that makes sense of it all. Until then, all anyone can do in this world is to tread our peculiar paths, cloaked in our oddities, hoping to stumble upon an oasis or two in the desert of the mundane.

MontyCallay101~7M

Coincidentally, I saw this online today: [LINK] - a co-living solution for game devs with "low rent and all-inclusive amenities". Might be interesting?

Tobias 1115~7M

Interesting that someone's made such a thing! I also find it interesting how it stresses acceptance of people's social and mental health struggles, their 'weirdness'.

I also just saw this (hour-old as I write this) Reddit post about a place for indie devs with mental health issues, and the comments suggest those issues are the norm among people on that path: [LINK]

I like the thing you linked to in theory, though practically there's no way I'd move to a country whose language I can't speak based on little more than hope, unfortunately.

MontyCallay101~7M

If only practicalities were no concern! Visiting another country for a bit would be daunting, of course, though people have done stranger things! Northern Europeans in general and the Swedish in particular are very accomodating to English speakers, in my experience. From the website and the reviews, it seems like they're specifically courting an international crowd. But it's certainly not something one would do on a whim!

It seems like that Reddit post's already been deleted, but the comments very much seem to imply that indie game dev is very tough mentally... shame to hear about your disappointing time in that class, and hope you're doing alright with it all. At least things seem somewhat stable at the moment. I think there's no shame in quitting if you find there's no point in going on with it, though if you do, it's probably a good idea to find something to replace it that gets you into contact with people.

I remember my first year at university, moving to a new city, where I had similar struggles in making meaningful connections, and with the handful of social groups/meetups I did go to, nothing did seem to materialise for me.

What worked better was joining a choir - it's very helpful if the activity is something that you can focus on without worrying too much about the social aspect of how people perceive you, and it's something where folks will stay afterwards and hang around and talk, and you perceive each other as a group working together. A lot of the other members weren't even in university anymore, but were young adults with jobs, so it was a pretty diverse group in that way!

It seems like that Reddit post's already been deleted, but the comments very much seem to imply that indie game dev is very tough mentally... shame to hear about your disappointing time in that class, and hope you're doing alright with it all. At least things seem somewhat stable at the moment. I think there's no shame in quitting if you find there's no point in going on with it, though if you do, it's probably a good idea to find something to replace it that gets you into contact with people.

I remember my first year at university, moving to a new city, where I had similar struggles in making meaningful connections, and with the handful of social groups/meetups I did go to, nothing did seem to materialise for me.

What worked better was joining a choir - it's very helpful if the activity is something that you can focus on without worrying too much about the social aspect of how people perceive you, and it's something where folks will stay afterwards and hang around and talk, and you perceive each other as a group working together. A lot of the other members weren't even in university anymore, but were young adults with jobs, so it was a pretty diverse group in that way!

Mantis_Toboggan5~7M

Those meetups, the classes, it's all a gamble, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Those other tech nerds and artists out there are probably feeling just as out of place as you. If you keep at it, you're bound to bump into someone who gets it.

As for money, you've got a creative spark – that's clear. Patreon can be a mixed bag, but you've already got a foot in the door. Play to your strengths, find your niche. Maybe steer clear of the furry fetish stuff unless you're into that – no judgment here.

Tobias 1115~7M

The issue these days seems to be figuring out what the 'it' I should keep at is. Back when I was younger, I joined communities like deviantART out of curiosity and posted for the pleasure of it, and met other artists - including my now-ex - through it.

These days, though, I feel like any efforts to engage with those communities would be more 'forced', something I'd be doing in the hopes of reaching some end goal rather than for the joy of the experience itself.

It seems to be due to age more than anything. While there are of course exceptions to the rule, for the most part we become tired, more set in our ways, and less likely to seek out new things as the youthful enthusiasm fades away and the traumas accumulate. There's an enormous difference between young puppy love and the impatient transactional connections when you're 30+, at least from what I've seen.

Mantis_Toboggan5~6M

You're right; when we're young, we're all about exploring, tossing ourselves into the fray for the heck of it. We didn't need a roadmap or a reason; but as the odometer ticks up, we start to feel like every move needs a purpose, every step's gotta lead somewhere. It's not just you; it's like a universal change we all seem to undergo as we hit those higher levels.

But let me lay this on you: that shift doesn't have to be a bad thing. Sure, the reasons we engage change, maybe the intensity dials down a bit, but that depth, the experience you bring to the table now? That's your ace.

Finding joy in what we do, maybe it's about mixing up the how and the why of it. Maybe it's not about recapturing that old magic the same old way but finding new tricks that resonate with where you're at now. And yeah, the connections might feel different, but they're also richer, got more layers, because you're not just sharing art or ideas; you're sharing the road you've traveled to get here.

Wabbit1~7M

Aight, I've been lurking for a while now decided to make an account, I really think that you should look into the indie vtubing sphere, it's filled with shy artistic types looking to make friends and have fun. And even if you don't wanna be the center of attention so to speak, there's a huge market for socalization in terms of making art, music, backgrounds and what not for people. I feel like if you were able to get on say, VGEN (A website designed for selling art aimed towards other artists/vtuber/introverted folk) you'd thrive.

Tobias 1115~7M

I've only ever seen the whole vtuber world from a long way away, and it's not really something that appeals to me personally, though I can see why others would like it a lot.

Are they all very anime-styled? I've never been into anime myself, and have never been drawn to things like visual novels like so many others have for this same reason.

I also get the impression that it's something that mostly appeals to people significantly younger than me? But I barely know anything about it, so is that the case?

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