I suppose it's not too different to seeing a muscular, swaggering, square-jawed guy flirting and posturing and making several girls giddy and giggly, and thinking "I'm not like that, nobody will feel like that about me".
I suspect you'd believe that there's someone out there for everyone, that not everyone is sexually attracted to the same kind of person, that it's all completely subjective. But there are reasons why some qualities are more sexually attractive than others, so people with more of those qualities are going to have an easier time finding larger numbers of partners than those without. With games, there are some qualities that are just more appealing to players than others, probably, so games with more of those qualities are more likely to succeed than those without.
Personally, I'd hate to be around that kind of guy, listening to him talk about his easy success with the opposite sex because of qualities he has but I don't. It's not that I'd want to be like him, or that I'd use his behaviour as inspiration for how I should act in future, but it'd just feel really unpleasant knowing "people want this, not what I am". So when I play indie games that are successful (AAA ones don't count since they're manufactured to be successful), it's not that I feel I want to copy them, but knowing that they have qualities my games don't have, and that's what people like, creates the same kind of despair.
There are some people who feel like outcasts, and desperately wish they were 'normal' and popular among others, but I was never one of those. Instead I've always just felt frustrated that there aren't more people like me out there, who I could relate to and please just by making what pleases me.
One of the categories on this blog is "Self-Loathing", so it'd be wrong to say I don't feel that way, but it's entirely social. Being surrounded by people for a couple of years led to a literal suicide attempt, and all my worst recurring memories are of my social mistakes and the negative judgements of others. I've been a lot better (in that regard, at least) in the isolation since leaving university, but I'm afraid of the reception my games might get - or the judgemental eyes on me as a person - if I ever achieve any kind of recognition again.
So it's tricky, wanting to make something that's successful so then I don't have to go out into the social world and can keep doing this, but knowing that success would mean more attention and judgement... I wish money wasn't an issue, so then I could just make what I love and never have to worry about how others feel about it or me.
1
TamaYoshi13~5Y
It's interesting how you rationalize relationships and art in a similar way. I'll rest on the point I made: "It's both right and wrong, depending how you view it." It reminds me of a talk on anti-romanticism: optimistically, if our preferences in partners are so arbitrary as to depend on things that are familiar, then we should be "thankful for ugly parents."
I think where you're specifically taking your pessimism too far is where you go from "traits that are STATISTICALLY more attractive" to "any one thing is doomed because they do not have those traits." Which is strange, because I don't think you believe this yourself; it seems like a pretty evident oversimplification. What puzzles me is this friction between your very strongly established identity as a sensible quirky man, and your occasional frustration at not being more conventional things, like... overly masculine and brash, or something; as if that were an universally desirable thing, or even a thing that you yourself wanted. Another thing I mentioned was that these "nice" traits can be learned. Another another thing is that many different traits will be valued widely differently by different people; a lot of people hated Undertale for its "ugly pixel graphics," and even fans of Undertale don't tend to readily defend its art style.
I probably already mentioned this, but in university, someone introduced me to a youtube channel of pickup artists; they made funny (if marginally misoginistic - not as bad as it can get) videos giving tips on "how to get the girl." I recall three videos specifically. The first one, where they wore feedback headphones while "picking up," giving them a debilitating stutter making it practically impossible to finish a sentence. Another one is how a guy essentially spread his ice cream on his entire face, and acting like he didn't even know (while he was picking up). Both of these led to friendly, fun interactions where they "got their numbers." Of course, it's unclear how many rejections they get in the making of the videos - they specifically say they get rejected a lot, and that it mustn't be dwelled on. The THIRD video I recall was one where they talked about their social issues, dealing with depression and social anxiety and avoidance issues (they also all identify as introverted), before they became "pickup artists." None of the guys in the group were physically attractive. They specifically mentioned starting with small interactions, like saying "thank you, have a good day" to the cashier in their local drugstore; something they sometimes didn't do out of anxiety! In their career as pickup artists, they offered courses where they "formed" other men in doing the same kinds of things they did; a lot of "testimonials" from them were of overwhelmingly ordinary men talking about their SUDDEN INCREASE IN POPULARITY with women.
I wouldn't say these guys changed my life, but they definitely gave me a useful perspective on social interactions, and some form of hope: if people in socially awkward situations with difficult psychological makeup can be fun and engaging, then it seems the whole argument from determinism just falls flat. Seeing other people have friendly interactions also implicitly informed how I could act myself. Even without practice, the "advices" tend to help in some mild manner. You just said you didn't want to listen to these kinds of guys, but from what I heard, they were in a pretty similar situation to yours, too.
Of course, uh, there's better to listen to for advice than pickup artists, but you get my point. For one, I think the emphasis on sexual relationships is problematic: it informs a culture of toxic masculinity, whether it wants to or not. I much prefer the channel "Charisma on Command" now, which is more about social interactions as a whole.
To be fair, though, I DON'T actually believe there's someone for everyone. I don't see it deterministically, though: I see it arbitrarily. Things are chaos, reality can be crap. But it can also not be. I felt like a social outcast for a long time in my early life, and it's safe to say I was both weird, unpleasant, and unpopular. Probably still am, depending on the social context. But I'm fortunate enough to have a very small amount of just-reliable-enough people. It might sound weird, but I think you're one of them, too; there's some friction in the format, but talking to you about these things is a pleasant romp for me.
I mean, I'm not a social animal; I'm a computer scientist that works at an insurance company. I'm fortunate to have introverted, awkward and funny colleagues (all men, obviously!). Just the other day, one was telling how he liked my way of thinking outside the box - an unusually personal moment, since we don't often talk about our FEEEEEEeeeeeLLLEEEEEeeeiiiinnnggsss. It led to conversation where we discussed how strangely similar we were, while also being entirely different people. Apparently, he said, we're the average of the 5 closest people in our lives; it felt accurate, considering how my humor and thinking style was very often directly affected by who I was around.
Okay now, I'm definitely late for work. So uh... YES.
I suspect you'd believe that there's someone out there for everyone, that not everyone is sexually attracted to the same kind of person, that it's all completely subjective. But there are reasons why some qualities are more sexually attractive than others, so people with more of those qualities are going to have an easier time finding larger numbers of partners than those without. With games, there are some qualities that are just more appealing to players than others, probably, so games with more of those qualities are more likely to succeed than those without.
Personally, I'd hate to be around that kind of guy, listening to him talk about his easy success with the opposite sex because of qualities he has but I don't. It's not that I'd want to be like him, or that I'd use his behaviour as inspiration for how I should act in future, but it'd just feel really unpleasant knowing "people want this, not what I am". So when I play indie games that are successful (AAA ones don't count since they're manufactured to be successful), it's not that I feel I want to copy them, but knowing that they have qualities my games don't have, and that's what people like, creates the same kind of despair.
There are some people who feel like outcasts, and desperately wish they were 'normal' and popular among others, but I was never one of those. Instead I've always just felt frustrated that there aren't more people like me out there, who I could relate to and please just by making what pleases me.
One of the categories on this blog is "Self-Loathing", so it'd be wrong to say I don't feel that way, but it's entirely social. Being surrounded by people for a couple of years led to a literal suicide attempt, and all my worst recurring memories are of my social mistakes and the negative judgements of others. I've been a lot better (in that regard, at least) in the isolation since leaving university, but I'm afraid of the reception my games might get - or the judgemental eyes on me as a person - if I ever achieve any kind of recognition again.
So it's tricky, wanting to make something that's successful so then I don't have to go out into the social world and can keep doing this, but knowing that success would mean more attention and judgement... I wish money wasn't an issue, so then I could just make what I love and never have to worry about how others feel about it or me.
I think where you're specifically taking your pessimism too far is where you go from "traits that are STATISTICALLY more attractive" to "any one thing is doomed because they do not have those traits." Which is strange, because I don't think you believe this yourself; it seems like a pretty evident oversimplification. What puzzles me is this friction between your very strongly established identity as a sensible quirky man, and your occasional frustration at not being more conventional things, like... overly masculine and brash, or something; as if that were an universally desirable thing, or even a thing that you yourself wanted. Another thing I mentioned was that these "nice" traits can be learned. Another another thing is that many different traits will be valued widely differently by different people; a lot of people hated Undertale for its "ugly pixel graphics," and even fans of Undertale don't tend to readily defend its art style.
I probably already mentioned this, but in university, someone introduced me to a youtube channel of pickup artists; they made funny (if marginally misoginistic - not as bad as it can get) videos giving tips on "how to get the girl." I recall three videos specifically. The first one, where they wore feedback headphones while "picking up," giving them a debilitating stutter making it practically impossible to finish a sentence. Another one is how a guy essentially spread his ice cream on his entire face, and acting like he didn't even know (while he was picking up). Both of these led to friendly, fun interactions where they "got their numbers." Of course, it's unclear how many rejections they get in the making of the videos - they specifically say they get rejected a lot, and that it mustn't be dwelled on. The THIRD video I recall was one where they talked about their social issues, dealing with depression and social anxiety and avoidance issues (they also all identify as introverted), before they became "pickup artists." None of the guys in the group were physically attractive. They specifically mentioned starting with small interactions, like saying "thank you, have a good day" to the cashier in their local drugstore; something they sometimes didn't do out of anxiety! In their career as pickup artists, they offered courses where they "formed" other men in doing the same kinds of things they did; a lot of "testimonials" from them were of overwhelmingly ordinary men talking about their SUDDEN INCREASE IN POPULARITY with women.
I wouldn't say these guys changed my life, but they definitely gave me a useful perspective on social interactions, and some form of hope: if people in socially awkward situations with difficult psychological makeup can be fun and engaging, then it seems the whole argument from determinism just falls flat. Seeing other people have friendly interactions also implicitly informed how I could act myself. Even without practice, the "advices" tend to help in some mild manner. You just said you didn't want to listen to these kinds of guys, but from what I heard, they were in a pretty similar situation to yours, too.
Of course, uh, there's better to listen to for advice than pickup artists, but you get my point. For one, I think the emphasis on sexual relationships is problematic: it informs a culture of toxic masculinity, whether it wants to or not. I much prefer the channel "Charisma on Command" now, which is more about social interactions as a whole.
To be fair, though, I DON'T actually believe there's someone for everyone. I don't see it deterministically, though: I see it arbitrarily. Things are chaos, reality can be crap. But it can also not be. I felt like a social outcast for a long time in my early life, and it's safe to say I was both weird, unpleasant, and unpopular. Probably still am, depending on the social context. But I'm fortunate enough to have a very small amount of just-reliable-enough people. It might sound weird, but I think you're one of them, too; there's some friction in the format, but talking to you about these things is a pleasant romp for me.
I mean, I'm not a social animal; I'm a computer scientist that works at an insurance company. I'm fortunate to have introverted, awkward and funny colleagues (all men, obviously!). Just the other day, one was telling how he liked my way of thinking outside the box - an unusually personal moment, since we don't often talk about our FEEEEEEeeeeeLLLEEEEEeeeiiiinnnggsss. It led to conversation where we discussed how strangely similar we were, while also being entirely different people. Apparently, he said, we're the average of the 5 closest people in our lives; it felt accurate, considering how my humor and thinking style was very often directly affected by who I was around.
Okay now, I'm definitely late for work. So uh... YES.