Alora Fane

I've been refining and implementing some of Divine Dreams' battle mechanics revisions that I presented in the previous post. Here's what I've got so far.

I know people are more interested in MARDEK than Divine Dreams at the moment, but this is still my current project, and I'm personally more interested in it because I love the active creative process. This post follows on from ∞ the previous one ∞, so you should read that if you haven't already.

I've streamlined some of the concepts presented in the other post, so they feel more like one unified system with some variation rather than two or even three competing systems with different rules.

Here are the (not fully finished) skills screens for both Mardek and Emeela (with mostly placeholder skills; I've not yet got to the point where I plan them properly):

Characters can learn a bunch of skills; I'm thinking they'll be acquired through dialogue - either via plot events or as sidequest rewards - rather than from random items. They can only use six of them in battle, but which six these are can be changed from the menu at any time (outside of battle).

Once acquired, skills are permanently available, but each has a level between 1 and 6, shown by the bars for each one here. Increasing these would empower the skill or add new effects. New levels would be 'bought' using items/currency acquired from killed or tamed monsters - and this can be reversed at any time to get the resources back - though I've yet to implement that (which is why they're all showing at level 3).

All skills have their availability tied to the arousal stat (the beating heart), so that'll play a pivotal role in managing both allies and enemies. The availability range is shown with the colour gradient: Emeela's Despair is available when her arousal is low, but Hate requires her arousal to be high, for example. Some skills would be available for the entire range, but they probably wouldn't be common. The Attack command would also be available regardless of arousal level.

Skills have a cost and an effect which both come in three flavours: Body, Light, and Dark. That is, you can have a skill that costs Body and affects Body, or costs Dark and affects Body, etc. So there are nine possibilities, though only five are actually used:

Skills that cost Body are similar to the old system, where they deplete the Body stat (HP) on use. Their damage is determined by the user's Attack stat minus the defender's Defence, altered according to any multipliers from elements, the skill itself, etc. Most 'special ability but not a spell'-type skills would be these Body-costing skills. Skills that cost Dark increase Dark (and deplete Light), though, and vice versa for Light. These use the corresponding Dark or Light stat to determine their power (altered by any skill multipliers).

On the skills in those screenshots, the icon shows what stat's being affected, and the colour shows the stat used to do it. The number on the right is the cost.

"Soothe" skills are the only ones to use runes, but I've not added that yet so it's not in these screenshots. These would be used both to tame monsters and to restore your allies' light.

"Vex" skills would most commonly be used by monsters, as they drive characters closer to madness - and making monsters more dark would only empower them - but Emeela's "Gloom" skill here could potentially increase Dark for everyone (and lower arousal), as she personally benefits from that since her Dark spells deal more damage the more Dark her mind is. I like the idea of skills like that, which have situational usefulness (maybe you want to get some allies' arousal down and Emeela's Dark up, but you have to pay the price of also losing access to high arousal skills or some tamed Light on enemies or tamed allies).

There are also buff/debuff skills - coloured light and dark respectively - which deal no damage and therefore neither use nor affect a stat.

Some - but not all - skills also allow reactions, which come in four varieties:

Characters can equip 12 pieces of equipment: two tools (usually a weapon and shield, but, like in MARDEK, some characters would work differently), an outfit (usually locked based on plot state; changes the character's appearance), three accessories, and six essences. The ones on the left mostly (but not exclusively) affect Body, while the ones on the right - the essences - mostly affect the mental stats (Light and Dark).

Each equipped item can have up to six properties, each of which has a type and a numerical value. Some properties are applied to the character's stat totals, while others only apply for successful reactions.

There are four flavours of reaction: Attack, Defend, Dark, and Light.

Attack reactions trigger when you're using a Body skill, while Defend ones trigger when you're being hit by a Body skill.

Dark reactions are offensive, and they trigger when you're using a Dark-cost skill; usually they'd increase damage etc.
Light reactions are defensive, however; they trigger when you're being hit by a Dark-cost skill.

It works this way because Light skills are positive (healing or taming), so there's no point buffing them offensively or defending against them. And using Dark and Light as reaction names seemed more aesthetically pleasing to me than something like "Dark Offence" and "Dark Defence", or "Mind Offence/Defence".

Not all skills allow reactions, and those that do have a ! of the colour of the reaction type they use.

I've mostly just worked on menus so far, but I've also begun implementing the changes in battles:

I've not done much with it though. I'll play around with implementing the actual mechanical effects next week.

Normally I'd start with those and make the menus last, but this was a strange case where I already had a working game to edit rather than starting from scratch. In hindsight maybe I should have made a separate prototype... but oh well, I'm here now!

I still have some more stuff to do with MARDEK, but I'll write another post about that once I've sorted it out.

27 COMMENTS

MontyCallay101~5Y

With gameplay elements like this, it's not always easy to say how "fun" it's going to be to actually play with, but I like the ideas a lot! I didn't comment on the last post, but in particular, I like the idea that each character's reaction to "going dark" could be different - that's a great way to characterise them through gameplay, which is really cool!

I think the concept of arousal that you outlined in the other post adds more to the combat system than the one used in the original Taming Dreams, where it was mostly just linked to "damage" output/received, if I remember correctly. Having it linked to speed and special spells makes sense and would probably be easier to play around.

I'm not sure if acquiring skills through dialogue is the best option, though I imagine it'd depend on how it happened - there was something neat in the original MARDEK in how you'd have to find the items and master the skills yourself for them to be available, as opposed to having them be bestowed upon you through dialogue. But it seems like the way you outlined might be a good compromise so as to let players still "master" the skills through use.

I have to say though that I find the idea of a combat system where emotions and character's personalities really determine their abilities to be really interesting! One thing that I found a bit strange in the original Taming Dreams is how your party's "emotional state" would always return to the mean after combat - emotions don't work like that! I wonder if there could be a way to make individual battles more impactful in that they'd leave a mark on characters' mental states even after they were over, and having to "manage" your party's emotions over a longer period of time.

All in all, I really like these changes! I think this combat system is something that are really going to set this game apart and make it both unique and interesting to players. Keep up the good work! As for MARDEK, even if people are interested right now, I think it's necessary that you take some time off thinking about it so as not to get burnt out, especially if you are considering making further minor changes. I wish I could offer some ideas there myself, but it's been a few years since I last played the games in sufficient depth!

(By the way, I sent an email to your new address yesterday - did you get it?)

I think the concept of arousal that you outlined in the other post adds more to the combat system than the one used in the original Taming Dreams, where it was mostly just linked to "damage" output/received, if I remember correctly. Having it linked to speed and special spells makes sense and would probably be easier to play around.

I'm not sure if acquiring skills through dialogue is the best option, though I imagine it'd depend on how it happened - there was something neat in the original MARDEK in how you'd have to find the items and master the skills yourself for them to be available, as opposed to having them be bestowed upon you through dialogue. But it seems like the way you outlined might be a good compromise so as to let players still "master" the skills through use.

I have to say though that I find the idea of a combat system where emotions and character's personalities really determine their abilities to be really interesting! One thing that I found a bit strange in the original Taming Dreams is how your party's "emotional state" would always return to the mean after combat - emotions don't work like that! I wonder if there could be a way to make individual battles more impactful in that they'd leave a mark on characters' mental states even after they were over, and having to "manage" your party's emotions over a longer period of time.

All in all, I really like these changes! I think this combat system is something that are really going to set this game apart and make it both unique and interesting to players. Keep up the good work! As for MARDEK, even if people are interested right now, I think it's necessary that you take some time off thinking about it so as not to get burnt out, especially if you are considering making further minor changes. I wish I could offer some ideas there myself, but it's been a few years since I last played the games in sufficient depth!

(By the way, I sent an email to your new address yesterday - did you get it?)

Tobias 1115~5Y

It's a bit silly how in MARDEK, characters are able to use skills at their greatest potential as soon as they equip a certain item, but if they unequip that before mastery, they completely lose access to the skill. Did they forget what they did before? What exactly does mastering the skill even mean?

It makes more sense to me to have skills you permanently learn through important character events - as they'd typically be reminding the characters of that event so then they could draw upon the emotions of the memory to manipulate the miasma - which you then improve over time. I'm hoping it'll be just as appealing as MARDEK's system, if not more.

I'm currently planning to have the Body state persist between battles while the Mind's state reverts at the start of battle, which definitely isn't how emotions really work! But it's not as if sword wounds can be completely healed by a night in a cheap inn bed either! (Or that being hit in the face by a gatling gun is something you could shrug off either.) It is a game at the end of the day, though, so game mechanics sometimes need to trump any semblance of realism. Mind would be reset at the start of battle in this so then the player could equip items that determine this starting state (do I equip these dark-boosting essences if it means I'd start battles more dark?), which would be lost if mental state persisted.

I've replied to your email now, sorry about the delay! I've been so exhausted about the MARDEK stuff, but I'll try to just get it done next week so then I can hopefully put it out of my mind...

It makes more sense to me to have skills you permanently learn through important character events - as they'd typically be reminding the characters of that event so then they could draw upon the emotions of the memory to manipulate the miasma - which you then improve over time. I'm hoping it'll be just as appealing as MARDEK's system, if not more.

I'm currently planning to have the Body state persist between battles while the Mind's state reverts at the start of battle, which definitely isn't how emotions really work! But it's not as if sword wounds can be completely healed by a night in a cheap inn bed either! (Or that being hit in the face by a gatling gun is something you could shrug off either.) It is a game at the end of the day, though, so game mechanics sometimes need to trump any semblance of realism. Mind would be reset at the start of battle in this so then the player could equip items that determine this starting state (do I equip these dark-boosting essences if it means I'd start battles more dark?), which would be lost if mental state persisted.

I've replied to your email now, sorry about the delay! I've been so exhausted about the MARDEK stuff, but I'll try to just get it done next week so then I can hopefully put it out of my mind...

vladandrei199647~5Y

Glad to see you're making progress on this part. Most of us are indeed excited for the Steam release of MARDEK, that would be a gift to the fanbase in these trying times, but your progress on Divine Dreams is quite exciting on its part, too.

Whatever comes out of your mind when you let out the creativity feels somehow unique and inovating in its own way so I'm sure a lot of us are waiting to see even more of this.

I don't know if this was addressed before, but I'll ask anyway. Are "reactions" gonna be in-game in the same style as in MARDEK ? I loved that addition because that made the combat feel more alive and it needed you to pay attention to the fight, I hope we'll have something like that in Divine Dreams.

Tobias 1115~5Y

Thank you!

If you haven't seen the gameplay video already, the way that reactions works is shown in that! I'm not planning to change how it works on the surface.

Verdusk21~5Y

You've mentioned in the previous post that you might have to not use the term "arousal". What do you think of "intensity" as a possible alternative?

Tobias 1115~5Y

That's a possibility, though 'arousal' is a more accurate term for what's going on. If it makes people all giggle like schoolgirls though, 'intensity' could be a solution to that!

xXDivineDreamerXx12~5Y

Awesome updates! I also agree that arousal is a more accurate term. I was wondering what other words you could use. What about "emotions", "mental state", "fervor", "adrenaline", "tension", or even just "heart rate"?

Actually, those all don't sound that great. What about "stress"?

Tobias 1115~5Y

Ideally it should be something which could be interpreted neutrally rather than negatively, and which couldn't be confused with one of the other mechanics (like mood or the dark/light mind).

The more I think about it and the more suggestions I consider, 'arousal' sounds increasingly appropriate! My experience studying Psychology and having to use precisely accurate terms for things probably comes into it, since 'arousal' is the term I'd use for this if I were writing an academic paper (rather than the old 'excitement', which predates my Psychology study, and which feels 'inaccurate' to me now).

I think I'll just stick with arousal for now and see how it's received. Thanks for giving it some thought though! Even if I don't use suggestions like these, they make me more sure of what I've already got, and are helpful in that sense!

Ampersand68~5Y

Looking at that table, I can't help but want to fill in the "missing slots". Though there are logical reasons why it doesn't make sense to have a Dark-costing spell restore Light, I can't help but think another category of ability based on empathy/sympathy that seeks an "equilibrium" of Dark and Light between two characters would be an interesting mechanic. Which leads me to think of other possibilities, like Steele having a "Schadenfreude" ability that restores his health at the cost of increasing the Darkness of an ally/enemy. I definitely see how the interaction between these three stats could lead to interesting characterization via game mechanics, which I would welcome very much!

Tobias 1115~5Y

I do think it opens up a lot of potential for interesting skill ideas such as that!

StrangeHawk6~5Y

I definitely have a much better understanding of how all of the systems interact with the extra context from this post! It definitely feels like it fits many of the themes you've been trying to convey, while still being familiar enough to not feel alienating or overly complex.

The main question that is still popping up in my mind is how the extremes of Light and Dark will end up working once reached (monsters taming, players being incapacitated or berserking, etc.). Is it just a threshold that changes behavior when crossed? Does it trigger a state and "reset" Light and Dark, turning off once the relevant extreme is reached? I know it is probably too early on to know, but this was the standout thing to me that might arise as an issue. Otherwise, the system sounds like it should work great once you can flesh it out!

Tobias 1115~5Y

It's best to see Light/Dark similar to HP, sort of, so for players being fully light just means 'at full HP' - so they have no additional effect - but being fully dark is equivalent to being 'dead', so they're incapacitated by some effect. Monsters are the opposite, so they 'die' when fully light, though that means they're either tamed to your side or appeased (in the case of bosses).

StrangeHawk6~5Y

That clears things up a bit, thank you!

MarninPL33~5Y

The game looks great, even if this early stage! Once you polish effect/UI stuff it will be perfect. You mentioned that you will not learn skills from items, but from dialogue. I'm not against that idea, but why shouldn't we keep both? More ways to learn abilities = more fun. Also, what do you mean exactly by dialogues? Someone teaches them those abilities, or they just become available due to an event/emotion felt by the character?

Tobias 1115~5Y

I'm still planning everything, but what I imagine at the moment is that skills would be learned either as a result of important plot revelations, or as a reward at the end of a sidequest. With sidequests, I think it's important to give the player something worthwhile and valuable, rather than some junk they can't do anything with (which would make the effort getting it feel like a waste). I think skills would be a great, satisfying reward for players' efforts in a way that learning them from some random item in a chest or shop wouldn't be.

MarninPL33~5Y

Also, I have a question: lorewise, what's the fundamental difference between light/dark on the new bar and bliss/fear elements?

Tobias 1115~5Y

Someone who's a protective guardian could be said to be presenting the light side of fear; they're mentally well but driven by wariness of danger. A dark bliss person is a more interesting one to imagine! Perhaps you could say a selfish hedonist, who indulges in pleasure to avoid inner demons, would have a dark mind but a bliss element?

Fear and Bliss aren't Dark and Light, though their colours are the same and most of their associations could be considered similar, so I imagine this is something I'll both have to try to make clear and which will be commonly misinterpreted or debated.

I suppose it could be summed up as the dark/light thing being mental health, how well you're coping with or consumed by your demons, while the elements are the ways in which that health or lack thereof manifests. Off the top of my head:

Courage: bravery/anger
Fear: protection/cowardice
Bliss: love/indulgence
Destruction: weeding/intolerance
Creation: innovation/imprisonment
Sorrow: empathy/depression

Something like that!

Fear and Bliss aren't Dark and Light, though their colours are the same and /most/ of their associations could be considered similar, so I imagine this is something I'll both have to try to make clear and which will be commonly misinterpreted or debated.

I suppose it could be summed up as the dark/light thing being mental health, how well you're coping with or consumed by your demons, while the elements are the ways in which that health or lack thereof manifests. Off the top of my head:

Courage: bravery/anger
Fear: protection/cowardice
Bliss: love/indulgence
Destruction: weeding/intolerance
Creation: innovation/imprisonment
Sorrow: empathy/depression

Something like that!

Maniafig222~5Y

Even as I am playing MARDEK right now, I'm also interested in Divine Dreams! It really is more fun to work on something new than to tinker with something made so long ago that looking at it brings so many ambivalent feelings.

I actually much prefer the idea of tying skills to plot progress and sidequests instead of being randomly linked to items. Something I really liked in Taming Mind was how your mementos dictated your skills and the mementos were actually meaningful to the wielder and served a narrative purpose, like Meraeadyth's optional pendant in the third chapter. You also did this in one of your quests, where the protagonist enters some really gloomy area so she got a skill that fit her current mood, which I thought was neat!

Grinding for skills in MARDEK was also just never fun to me, but a chore to sit and work through, especially since there was no way to speed up and optimize the process through clever play.

So I do hope that for leveling up skills, you use a system similar to mastering Miasmon in Taming Mind, where the skill's experience isn't determined by how often you use it but how effectively you use it, so doing big damage means earning more experience than just hacking away thoughtlessly at some level 1 mook in the starting area.

Looking at the table, I'm sure many people's first thoughts were filling in the blank spaces... Mine sure were! I suppose there's no need to fill them in just yet, but I also think it'd be a shame if they go unused for the whole series. I'm sure that as the game grows and people get more used to the engine, you can throw some interesting curveballs at the player. The whole fun of making a system with rules is breaking the rules, of course.

It does make me wonder whether all Light skills use the positive sentiments, the all Dark ones the negative ones? Or are there Light negative ones and Dark positive ones? Maybe it's all a metaphor for not fighting but accepting and coming to terms with our inner Darkness! Maka was right all along!!

Wouldn't Vex skills also use runes? The more aligned an enemy is with you, the more they're able to drive you mad... Or maybe not? Maybe it doesn't matter? That is how it worked in Taming Mind, anyway, though you could also have skills that are more powerful the less harmonious the monster and player are. It's hard to imagine how these things should work, similar to the question of whether elements should resist themselves or be weak to themselves.

Taming Mind had a lot of those situationally useful skills, or things like using the Flamethrower or Fret on the party to rile them but also damage them. Can you tell that I really like Taming Mind?! I really do!!

So, if someone is using a skill to tame a monster or heal an ally, there's no reaction to increase the effectiveness of the skill?

Are you supporting controller controls with Divine Dreams? Your menu UI there uses the typical ABYX inputs of a controller.

Anyway, I'm interested in the system so far! I really liked the system in Taming Mind, as well as generally liking non-violent solutions in encounters, so it sounds like a taming-based run would suit me better!

I actually much prefer the idea of tying skills to plot progress and sidequests instead of being randomly linked to items. Something I really liked in Taming Mind was how your mementos dictated your skills and the mementos were actually meaningful to the wielder and served a narrative purpose, like Meraeadyth's optional pendant in the third chapter. You also did this in one of your quests, where the protagonist enters some really gloomy area so she got a skill that fit her current mood, which I thought was neat!

Grinding for skills in MARDEK was also just never fun to me, but a chore to sit and work through, especially since there was no way to speed up and optimize the process through clever play.

So I do hope that for leveling up skills, you use a system similar to mastering Miasmon in Taming Mind, where the skill's experience isn't determined by how often you use it but how effectively you use it, so doing big damage means earning more experience than just hacking away thoughtlessly at some level 1 mook in the starting area.

Looking at the table, I'm sure many people's first thoughts were filling in the blank spaces... Mine sure were! I suppose there's no need to fill them in just yet, but I also think it'd be a shame if they go unused for the whole series. I'm sure that as the game grows and people get more used to the engine, you can throw some interesting curveballs at the player. The whole fun of making a system with rules is breaking the rules, of course.

It does make me wonder whether all Light skills use the positive sentiments, the all Dark ones the negative ones? Or are there Light negative ones and Dark positive ones? Maybe it's all a metaphor for not fighting but accepting and coming to terms with our inner Darkness! Maka was right all along!!

Wouldn't Vex skills also use runes? The more aligned an enemy is with you, the more they're able to drive you mad... Or maybe not? Maybe it doesn't matter? That is how it worked in Taming Mind, anyway, though you could also have skills that are more powerful the less harmonious the monster and player are. It's hard to imagine how these things should work, similar to the question of whether elements should resist themselves or be weak to themselves.

Taming Mind had a lot of those situationally useful skills, or things like using the Flamethrower or Fret on the party to rile them but also damage them. Can you tell that I really like Taming Mind?! I really do!!

So, if someone is using a skill to tame a monster or heal an ally, there's no reaction to increase the effectiveness of the skill?

Are you supporting controller controls with Divine Dreams? Your menu UI there uses the typical ABYX inputs of a controller.

Anyway, I'm interested in the system so far! I really liked the system in Taming Mind, as well as generally liking non-violent solutions in encounters, so it sounds like a taming-based run would suit me better!

Tobias 1115~5Y

Here's a stupid decision of mine: I called a game Taming Dreams, then my blog Taming (the) Mind, then another game Divine Dreams (which is a name I also used for a completely different project years ago)... Not confusing at all! I keep calling them the wrong things myself and have to correct myself. (When I ascend to Buddhahood eventually, I'll rename my blog Divine Mind.)

I really like the mementos concept and fully intended to bind skills to mementos in this, but it seemed like an extra layer which wouldn't add anything. Different games use different naming systems for spells ("Firaga", "Fireball", "Super Flame"), and I wondered in this whether to use the names of specific memories for the skills, like "Our Hero" (for a skill learned after someone says that in response to a deed you'd done), or "Her Condescending Smile", or... something, because those would be the thoughts used to manipulate the miasma into spells, but it's much harder to think of ideas and wouldn't be clear about what the skills actually did. Still, it's an idea! (Or maybe mementos are skills, so instead of equipping a Blue Hood to unlock Despair, you just use the Blue Hood as a skill to deal Sorrow damage etc... But in that particular example, wouldn't Emeela's Blue Hood already be equipped on a different screen??)

I've been intending to use some kind of currency for levelling up skills which you acquire from killing or taming monsters, but I'd been imagining each one would drop one unit. Now that you've mentioned the old Taming Dreams system - which I liked too! - maybe I should do something similar, where the more effectively you kill or tame an enemy, the more currency you get. Maybe it's based on the total number of Body damage inflicted, or Light accumulated, including numbers past the enemy's limits? So if they have 100 Body and you deal 200 damage, you get 200 currency. Though that'd probably make it more desirable to just nuke low-defence enemies right at the start since you'd be able to deal more damage to them... I'll need to give that some thought, so that each monster has a multiplier or something. (Maybe skills power up based on how much total damage you inflict with them, rather than on enemies defeated or tamed?)

I can easily imagine a dark Courage spell which summons up angry flames, or a light Sorrow spell which empathises!

Yes, Vex skills should use runes! That was an oversight on my part there. It'd mean the runes could be used defensively as well as just for taming.

Did MARDEK have reactions for healing spells? I can't remember! I want the rune-based skills to be more 'thought-based' while the Body-damaging ones are more 'action-based', so it fits that there's no reactions for those, and runes play that modifying role instead.

I'm building the game entirely around XBox controller input, though I'm also building it in such a way that alternate control schemes could be easily added if necessary. I wonder what the stats are about what people use as input...

I really like the mementos concept and fully intended to bind skills to mementos in this, but it seemed like an extra layer which wouldn't add anything. Different games use different naming systems for spells ("Firaga", "Fireball", "Super Flame"), and I wondered in this whether to use the names of specific memories for the skills, like "Our Hero" (for a skill learned after someone says that in response to a deed you'd done), or "Her Condescending Smile", or... something, because those would be the thoughts used to manipulate the miasma into spells, but it's much harder to think of ideas and wouldn't be clear about what the skills actually did. Still, it's an idea! (Or maybe mementos /are/ skills, so instead of equipping a Blue Hood to unlock Despair, you just use the Blue Hood as a skill to deal Sorrow damage etc... But in that particular example, wouldn't Emeela's Blue Hood already be equipped on a different screen??)

I've been intending to use some kind of currency for levelling up skills which you acquire from killing or taming monsters, but I'd been imagining each one would drop one unit. Now that you've mentioned the old Taming Dreams system - which I liked too! - maybe I should do something similar, where the more effectively you kill or tame an enemy, the more currency you get. Maybe it's based on the total number of Body damage inflicted, or Light accumulated, including numbers past the enemy's limits? So if they have 100 Body and you deal 200 damage, you get 200 currency. Though that'd probably make it /more/ desirable to just nuke low-defence enemies right at the start since you'd be able to deal more damage to them... I'll need to give that some thought, so that each monster has a multiplier or something. (Maybe skills power up based on how much total damage you inflict with them, rather than on enemies defeated or tamed?)

I can easily imagine a dark Courage spell which summons up angry flames, or a light Sorrow spell which empathises!

Yes, Vex skills /should/ use runes! That was an oversight on my part there. It'd mean the runes could be used defensively as well as just for taming.

Did MARDEK have reactions for healing spells? I can't remember! I want the rune-based skills to be more 'thought-based' while the Body-damaging ones are more 'action-based', so it fits that there's no reactions for those, and runes play that modifying role instead.

I'm building the game entirely around XBox controller input, though I'm also building it in such a way that alternate control schemes could be easily added if necessary. I wonder what the stats are about what people use as input...

Maniafig222~5Y

I'd totally forgotten you had named a prior project Divine Dreams! I'm surprised the hub for that project still exists, when I googled the name!

I think the easiest solution for earning EXP would be your idea where you earn EXP equal to skill effectiveness multiplied by some value depending on the enemy. Then every chapter could ramp up the multiplier, and bosses could have a bigger one as well!

I can't say I'd miss having reactions on the taming side of things, when playing MARDEK I miss reactions all the time, especially when defending! In a way, playing without reactions as I did last time was a relief since I didn't need to constantly hover my finger over the reaction button!

In MARDEK, healing spells use the same reactions as offensive magic, but I think only the skills that increase damage by 10%/20%/30% affect healing and increase healing by that amount. You could even trigger reactions on buffs and whatnot, though it wouldn't do anything except increase your AP, MARDEK was weird like that!

I wish I could play MARDEK with my controller! I also wish it had a run button!! I'm glad your new game will have both!

Oh, I also had one other question, which is whether every character would get both fighting and taming skills, or whether some characters only exclusively use one kind. I am imagining some characters would be better at one type of combat than the other, like Steele would probably be better at fighting and Elwyen at taming.

I'd totally forgotten you had named a prior project Divine Dreams! I'm surprised the hub for that project still exists, when I googled the name!

I think the easiest solution for earning EXP would be your idea where you earn EXP equal to skill effectiveness multiplied by some value depending on the enemy. Then every chapter could ramp up the multiplier, and bosses could have a bigger one as well!

I can't say I'd miss having reactions on the taming side of things, when playing MARDEK I miss reactions all the time, especially when defending! In a way, playing without reactions as I did last time was a relief since I didn't need to constantly hover my finger over the reaction button!

In MARDEK, healing spells use the same reactions as offensive magic, but I think only the skills that increase damage by 10%/20%/30% affect healing and increase healing by that amount. You could even trigger reactions on buffs and whatnot, though it wouldn't do anything except increase your AP, MARDEK was weird like that!

I wish I could play MARDEK with my controller! I also wish it had a run button!! I'm glad your new game will have both!

Oh, I also had one other question, which is whether every character would get both fighting and taming skills, or whether some characters only exclusively use one kind. I am imagining some characters would be better at one type of combat than the other, like Steele would probably be better at fighting and Elwyen at taming.

Ptyrell37~5Y

Just realized character's minds have different total values. Will their minds "expand" as they gain strength?

Any thoughts on using "-" instead of "x" to depict a neutral rune? May look better to have a bunch of "---" for monsters than "xxx". I think it is easier to understand as well for people new to the rune system.

Tobias 1115~5Y

Characters have a base total for both Light and Dark, which is then boosted by any equipment (usually essences), the same as with the Body stat.

I've been uncertain about what to use for the 'balanced' rune value. I've been using x out of habit after discovering a Big Five (not Myers-Briggs) symbol system years ago (called OCEAN) which used it for its neutral values. I've been wondering whether to use something different instead, like 'o' or even '%'. '-' could work too. Ideally it should suggest balance rather than 'nothing' though, which '-' suggests to me. The same could be said of 'x' though.

Dingding32167~5Y

I second the "-" suggestion! Usually it might suggest negative to me but in context it's more of a "not a letter therefore null" value in my head which makes it a lot clearer for me personally.

Falcon64~5Y

I absolutely love the new systems; they are deep and unique, yet familiar and seem fun. I do have a few specific comments:

I like the name "sanity" for the "mind" stat, as it is an established name for a mental health statistic in RPGs (mainly tabletop ones), so it immediately evokes an appropriate feeling/understanding for me.

I'm not sure how I feel about physical skills costing your health. How does it make sense logically? Also, while I'm sure you haven't balanced the numbers yet, Mardek's physical skills cost 10 health while he only has 48 total in that screenshot, which seems to me like an extremely steep cost. While the Light/Dark mechanic for Mind is interesting, and boosting your Dark has benefits (making Dark spells stronger), losing health is strictly detrimental, and I personally feel like I wouldn't want to use those skills.

I am also not sure how I feel about being able to freely change the "investment" you've put into leveling skills outside of battle. This seems like a major "leveling" mechanic of making your characters stronger, so I feel like it should have more permanency. It also doesn't seem logical to me that you could suddenly become less skilled in something you've put training towards!

I personally see no issues with anything else; it looks amazing! The "stat blurb" heads for characters and monsters are particularly appealing to me.

I absolutely love the new systems; they are deep and unique, yet familiar and seem fun. I do have a few specific comments:

I like the name "sanity" for the "mind" stat, as it is an established name for a mental health statistic in RPGs (mainly tabletop ones), so it immediately evokes an appropriate feeling/understanding for me.

I'm not sure how I feel about physical skills costing your health. How does it make sense logically? Also, while I'm sure you haven't balanced the numbers yet, Mardek's physical skills cost 10 health while he only has 48 total in that screenshot, which seems to me like an extremely steep cost. While the Light/Dark mechanic for Mind is interesting, and boosting your Dark has benefits (making Dark spells stronger), losing health is strictly detrimental, and I personally feel like I wouldn't want to use those skills.

I am also not sure how I feel about being able to freely change the "investment" you've put into leveling skills outside of battle. This seems like a major "leveling" mechanic of making your characters stronger, so I feel like it should have more permanency. It also doesn't seem logical to me that you could suddenly become less skilled in something you've put training towards!

I personally see no issues with anything else; it looks amazing! The "stat blurb" heads for characters and monsters are particularly appealing to me.

Tobias 1115~5Y

Is it more logical to have characters who can swing their swords just as well at 1 HP as they can at full HP but then they drop dead the moment they lose that remaining hit point? If you see Body as exhaustion rather than, say, physical wounds (which lost HP never looks like in RPGs anyway), then I think spending some of your energy to execute a particularly powerful attack makes sense!

But then the Attack command should probably cost something too, right? But no, it's probably one of those many, many things that don't make 'logical' sense in terms of real-world mechanics, but which games use to make their gameplay more interesting or less bound by physical restrictions.

The cost of skills is an interesting thing to wonder about, which different games have taken different approaches to. It's important that the skills don't feel too free, but they shouldn't be so costly as to discourage use either. Is MP a better solution? Some kind of SP or similar? Cooldowns? Personally I like the Body thing because much of the game's other mechanics are based around the idea of double-edged choices with consequences (eg becoming more Dark to empower your spells, but you edge closer to madness). Plus it'd probably be actually easier to restore Body than it'd typically be to restore MP in a standard RPG, through standard healing.

Would you consider it worth it if a character had 50 Body, but could spend 10 to use a skill which dealt 200% damage against an enemy this would certainly dispatch but which a normal Attack wouldn't?

I'm still unsure about skill learning; it probably should be more permanent! I'm wondering whether to have them gain XP from the damage you use them to inflict (or the taming equivalent), or something, but that opens up the possibility of just fighting low-defence enemies to max out your XP quickly. The same could be said of a 1-AP-per-battle system though. I still need to give it more thought!

But then the Attack command should probably cost something too, right? But no, it's probably one of those many, many things that don't make 'logical' sense in terms of real-world mechanics, but which games use to make their gameplay more interesting or less bound by physical restrictions.

The cost of skills is an interesting thing to wonder about, which different games have taken different approaches to. It's important that the skills don't feel too /free/, but they shouldn't be so costly as to discourage use either. Is MP a better solution? Some kind of SP or similar? Cooldowns? Personally I like the Body thing because much of the game's other mechanics are based around the idea of double-edged choices with consequences (eg becoming more Dark to empower your spells, but you edge closer to madness). Plus it'd probably be actually easier to restore Body than it'd typically be to restore MP in a standard RPG, through standard healing.

Would you consider it worth it if a character had 50 Body, but could spend 10 to use a skill which dealt 200% damage against an enemy this would certainly dispatch but which a normal Attack wouldn't?

I'm still unsure about skill learning; it probably should be more permanent! I'm wondering whether to have them gain XP from the damage you use them to inflict (or the taming equivalent), or something, but that opens up the possibility of just fighting low-defence enemies to max out your XP quickly. The same could be said of a 1-AP-per-battle system though. I still need to give it more thought!

Falcon64~5Y

I haven't thought of it like that, and now that you've explained it, it makes sense. I guess that's one of the reasons the statistic is called "Body" rather than "health". Maybe something like "Stamina" would be more evocative, though, as the term "Mind" doesn't seem to be used now (replaced with "Light" and "Dark"), so there's less of a need to use "Body" for the dualistic implications... alternatively, just explaining in-game that it represents stamina would work fine, I feel.

Large costs and readily available healing options would make combat feel more fast-paced and like every decision matters. That was somewhat of an issue in MARDEK, as you had such large health and mana pools that they were mostly irrelevant. You could heal up with magic once in a while, and I don't think I've ever run out of mana.

Now I see how this ties into the rest of the design, and you've changed my mind about it.

As for skill learning, having it tied to skill usage might ordinarily feel grindy, but seeing how the game has a limited amount of enemies this time, there would also be limited opportunities to use and train skills. That's somewhat of a double-edged sword, as it eliminates grindiness, but prevents players from freely training all skills. Maybe having the system be entirely rigid and XP tied to finishing battles (like 1 XP for every character per battle; there's no need to use large numbers here either!) would be better, as it would also allow you to predict player power levels throughout the game and adjust encounters accordingly. This XP could then be distributed between skills as the player sees fit.

I do believe the ability to retrain would be nice, but perhaps there should be some costs associated with it, either resource or opportunity ones (or both); for example, needing to go to certain NPCs to have them retrain you, or being able to do it anywhere but having to pay money, or having to go to an NPC *and* having to pay them money. Or maybe it could be done at saving crystals, if you want it to be more readily available, but seeing how there's no random encounters, that would just mean there's somewhat pointless backtracking.

I'm just throwing out ideas as they come to me. Ultimately it's up to you how to handle this, but I'm glad if this is helpful at all!

Large costs and readily available healing options would make combat feel more fast-paced and like every decision matters. That was somewhat of an issue in MARDEK, as you had such large health and mana pools that they were mostly irrelevant. You could heal up with magic once in a while, and I don't think I've ever run out of mana.

Now I see how this ties into the rest of the design, and you've changed my mind about it.

As for skill learning, having it tied to skill usage might ordinarily feel grindy, but seeing how the game has a limited amount of enemies this time, there would also be limited opportunities to use and train skills. That's somewhat of a double-edged sword, as it eliminates grindiness, but prevents players from freely training all skills. Maybe having the system be entirely rigid and XP tied to finishing battles (like 1 XP for every character per battle; there's no need to use large numbers here either!) would be better, as it would also allow you to predict player power levels throughout the game and adjust encounters accordingly. This XP could then be distributed between skills as the player sees fit.

I do believe the ability to retrain would be nice, but perhaps there should be some costs associated with it, either resource or opportunity ones (or both); for example, needing to go to certain NPCs to have them retrain you, or being able to do it anywhere but having to pay money, or having to go to an NPC *and* having to pay them money. Or maybe it could be done at saving crystals, if you want it to be more readily available, but seeing how there's no random encounters, that would just mean there's somewhat pointless backtracking.

I'm just throwing out ideas as they come to me. Ultimately it's up to you how to handle this, but I'm glad if this is helpful at all!

SafiyaMukhamadova11~4Y

If there aren't going to be exp-gained levels, are there going to be rare items that permanently buff different stats (health, stamina, strength, etc) and not specifically the skills? I'm probably in the minority on this but for most games, I'd rather grind for an extra 30 (or 300) hours to get enough rare materials to make a boss fight a breeze than struggle through a boss fight as soon as it's unlocked. Maybe make a +10 max hp potion available at a vendor for 10k gold? That should make it rare enough that the weirdos like me can do the optional grinding but the people who like boss fights to be boss fights can skip that step whenever they want.