Alora Fane

In a nutshell, Divine Dreams is what MARDEK could have been, if I'd had more skill and I'd done more planning.

I've talked about this all this a few times before, but some of the comments on ∞ Saturday's post ∞ - in which I talked about possibly changing the protagonist - made me wonder if people still have the wrong idea about what I'm trying to achieve here. Since I had the same thing to say in response to several comments, here's a new post instead.

I first used a character called 'Mardek' in an odd... thing made in PowerPoint - due to lack of other options - when I was around 14 or 15. It was kind of like a series of JRPG battles without actual gameplay; I used PowerPoint's transition effects to make dialogue boxes or spell effects appear, or to make HP bars shrink. Strange; a way of making my dreams a reality before I knew how to program.

Sadly I no longer have these files, and my memories of them are vague. I do know that one of them involved a knight with the random, first-thing-that-came-to-mind name 'Mardek', who was represented by this clipart:

He explored a place called the Sun Temple, where he fought green and red lizardmen alongside the temple's guardian, a golden, light-magic-wielding wolf childishly called Solaar (all also represented by clipart, which I annoyingly can't find).

Maybe a couple of years later, I spent a lot of time making adventures in a game called Neverwinter Nights. I made one called 'Governance de Magi', where the customisable protagonist, along with his childhood friend Emela Jard, and their adoptive father, a wizard called Rohoph, fought off a council of Rohoph's evil wizard allies, starting with a necromancer called Moric.

I talked about that - and showed gameplay footage - in ∞ this post ∞.

After that, I got into making my own games in Flash. At first I was trying to make something based around 'Yalortism', a silly fake religion I'd made together with my school friends, as well as an equally silly thing called Fig Hunter, in which you aimed to become a type of absurd mythical warrior who spent their lives battling inanimate fruit.

Fig Hunter was the first RPG that I made, and I actually got quite far with it! Some of you might have already played it, though I forget where - or if - I ever released it. I talked about it - and this other early stuff - in ∞ these blog posts ∞.

Both it and its successor-of-sorts, Deliverance (pictured here), were similar to MARDEK in that they blended together sci-fi and fantasy (both involved planet hopping, Deliverance began on a spaceship), and didn't take themselves too seriously. They both had customisable protagonists - like those in the Western RPGs I'd played, most notably Neverwinter Nights - but gameplay based on JRPGs, especially the Final Fantasies. Both had a semblance of a plot, but were poorly-planned, scattered. Both were also intended to be huge epics, on the scale of the games I loved, maybe even greater!! Naive.

As they were bloating so much that the finish line was getting further and further away, though, I had an idea which keeps coming up: what if, while working on these in the background, I made something short and simple that I could actually release, maybe in chunks? It doesn't need to be anything big or interesting, I just need something I can finish!

So, I created a folder called QuickQuests, in which I'd store these little games I'd make. I turned to the Sun Temple thing I'd made in PowerPoint as a basis, since it felt throwaway and saved me the time of coming up with something completely new. I started by making this tactical-RPG-inspired thing in early 2007, starring Mardek, the knight from the original PowerPoint thing:

I can't remember if I've ever shown that anywhere before! I only worked on it for a few days, and I reused a lot of assets from Deliverance. The (placeholder) dialogue is from that.

This armoured Mardek was the first instance of the character, though there wasn't anything to him as an actual character. He didn't even have a face! I didn't think too deeply about such things back then; I largely thought about characters in terms of what they were ('a knight', 'the king') rather than who they were on a personal level.

Perhaps this bothered me though, and I began wondering about how to actually give this Mardek character an actual story. I liked the idea of starting at the beginning, with his childhood, and that inspired the general direction of MARDEK Chapter 1. Looking for inspiration for the story beyond that, I turned to the Neverwinter Nights modules I'd spent a lot of time on, and Governance de Magi stood out to me as it was one of the ones I'd actually finished, and which offered some interesting potential with the council of wizards.

No longer bound by the limitations of Neverwinter Nights, though, I made the Governance de Magi (which weren't even a governing body in the original?) aliens instead of just wizards, and I had Rohoph's consciousness possess Mardek instead of having him bodily accompany the player, as he did in the module.

I built on and combined older ideas to produce something more interesting than any of them were originally.

So I made MARDEK 1 - really quickly, from what I recall, though it's hard to tell from the file dates how long it actually took - and planned to make eight of them, as I imagined they'd all be small and quick. Obviously that didn't happen, though, and they became too bloated - the third in particular - that I couldn't finish what I started.

As I worked on MARDEK 3, I had some interesting ideas for how the story could go. Potential brewed, and the narrative side of things developed beyond the fairly uninspired beginnings. It all grew gradually, organically, though; while I apparently had some kind of a plan from the beginning (as shown by notes included in the Steam extras), a lot of the better ideas only began to form over the course of development.

If you play MARDEK 1, 2, and 3 back-to-back now, you can see this. The way it starts is a lot less interesting than what it grows into.

Much of its content though was essentially cannibalised from earlier works, notably Deliverance:

This reusing and refining of ideas is something I've always done.

Since MARDEK, I've experimented with a few projects that I never finished (Miasmon, AFC, etc), and I've developed - over the course of several years - a setting (Alora Fane) I'm quite pleased with, as it's my own rather than just an imitation of Final Fantasy or D&D.

MARDEK remains my biggest hit though, so I keep returning to it largely for that reason. I spent a lot of time on it, and it's hard to just completely let go of that.

However, like with the original conception of MARDEK, I'm not interested in keeping every detail intact. Rather, I look at my old work, and see what could be polished, changed, done better. It's easier - and more satisfying! - to edit and refine something than it is to create something entirely from scratch.

Taming Dreams was an attempt to combine the MARDEK story with the Alora Fane world and 'non-violent battle system' I'd been designing. Again, I feel my plans were too ambitious (I planned dozens of chapters), and the ridiculous way I'd planned to release it (as a mobile game), plus other life events (going to university), ultimately led to its unfortunate end. Still, I planned it excessively - aiming to avoid the errors I made with MARDEK - and I still like a lot of what I intended to do with it.

While planning Taming Dreams, I reimagined a lot of the characters, while others remained essentially the same but varied in details. Meraeador was now a young female inventor called Meraeadyth, who was highly sceptical and lonely (but in denial), and who joined during the early forest section; her connection with Mardek and Deugan grew over time, as part of the game, in contrast to the told-not-shown connection they had with Meraeador. Emela gained an extra 'e' in her name, and the sorrow and social ineptitude which came from spending her childhood sealed away from others were explored more deeply. Child-Elwyen, rather than being a damsel-in-distress quest object, expressed her yearning for adventure in music, and was inspired by her meeting with a 'mermaid' (Emeela) to make herself beautifully blue.

There's this meme thing called "Draw This Again", where artists return to their old drawings after several years of skill development and personal growth, and the results are often striking. This is a random example by I-don't-know-who (it's not my art!) from googling 'draw this again'; I only seem to have done one of my own, years ago, though the differences in time and art quality aren't nearly as large:

(I should do that again...)

With both the other artist's and mine - though the former more obviously - the aim isn't to reproduce every detail of the original. Rather, it's to recreate the essence of the original while tweaking any details if a better design presents itself. Sometimes elements are lost entirely (eg the entire background in the other artist's image) because retaining them would just be gaudy.

It's interesting comparing the battle systems of MARDEK, Taming Dreams, and Divine Dreams in this way:

The TD and DD screenshots don't just show essentially the same thing as MARDEK, just with fancier visuals. That'd be a remake, a remaster. Rather, they take the essence of the game, story, and characters, but alter the details to something that I, as an older, more developed developer, felt was a better interpretation of the essential skeleton. They're still 'JRPG battles', but all the details of what that actually entails have been revised.

It's different with characters though, isn't it? For example, you might agree that visually, one of these is an improvement over the other:

But they're both still Tony Stark, tech genius alcoholic playboy. There are some different details between each incarnation, but he's still essentially the same character.

It's interesting though how many characters in these comics adaptations are changed dramatically to make them more fitting for something which we could believe could be the real world, but their names remain the same. To change the name would be sacrilege!

And I do understand that. Names are important, attachments to characters are important. Even if all the details change, the name allows the concept to root itself in warm familiarity.

Well, sort of. Sometimes you get fans who absolutely hate 'in name only' adaptations because nothing about them except the name is similar to how the character they know looks, acts, or thinks.

Going back a bit to the video of that old thing that eventually became MARDEK, you'll notice that Mardek's being followed by two generic soldiers. This was 'inspired by' (ie directly stolen from) Final Fantasy VI's beginning, where Terra's accompanied by Biggs and Wedge. In both instances, it's supposed to show the character's rank as a commanding knight (or whatever Terra was), and gameplay-wise it adds members to your party to aid with battles.

When it came time to actually do this bit in MARDEK 3, however, I reinvented these faceless flunkies as Donovan and Sharla, who at least had some kind of personality. I think this idea came before MARDEK 2 started development, so I incorporated them into that too rather than having Mardek and Deugan accompanied by nobodies during that mission/test/whatever it was.

Sometimes dramatically revising a previously shallow character like this can lead to a drastically better story.

(In Divine Dreams, those characters have been removed entirely because their role isn't important enough.)

5 months ago (!), I posted this set of silhouettes of (most of) the major characters from Divine Dreams:

I've been meaning to return to that, to reveal them one-by-one, though I've yet to find the best time and place to do that. If I had, though, you'd notice that - like with Taming Dreams before this - I've redesigned, and in many cases renamed, many of the characters to the point where they're only vaguely based on their MARDEK counterparts.

I wondered what it'd be like if I coloured some of those silhouettes to show which characters I'd redesigned or renamed:

The orange ones weren't in MARDEK at all... though they're all based, vaguely, on characters that were. Blue means the name has changed; the darker blues mean the name changed somewhat (eg Emela to Emeela, Muriance to Murias), while the brighter blues mean a complete name change. Some of them are roughly the same as their MARDEK equivalents in terms of general personality and story role, while others are dramatically different, though that's not marked here.

So far I've been showing off the protagonist, Deugan, Emeela, and Steele, and they're unusual in that they've changed the least from MARDEK... or at least from Taming Dreams. It probably gives the impression the other characters will be similarly similar, but that's not the case.

But I refer to 'the protagonist' there rather than 'Mardek', because, as I wrote about in the other post, I'm considering revising this character completely. And, understandably, that's been met with opposition by people who have fond memories of MARDEK.

But the point is, I'm not remaking MARDEK. That's not what this is. While developing MARDEK, I came up with some ideas that eventually made the story much more interesting to me than it was when I started. Potential bloomed, but the original settings and characters were like an anchor which limited the range of ideas I could explore.

Now, you could say that I could - or should - just start again from scratch, rather than trying to reuse anything from MARDEK, if I'm not going to stick with every detail (or at least the protagonist), but, well, I've already tried that with a few different ideas over the years, but none of them are things I've spent years thinking about and exploring from all kinds of angles so they never stick.

You might also say that if I change the protagonist, then I have to change the rest of the story, right? But it's more like the other way around. The way the story's developed, the original, relatively 'empty' protagonist, Mardek, now feels like a poor fit.

Like a musician who starts their career using a little toy keyboard with limited keys because they can't afford anything else, but as they grow in fame and fortune, they want to move to a big piano with the full amount of keys so they can play more varied music... but they're associated with the toy keyboard by fans, who often just want to see that keyboard, so they feel trapped. Or something.

As I've planned the story - which was based on the ideas that bubbled up during MARDEK 3's development - I've come to realise that it needs a different kind of leading character to do it justice. Something richer, someone with specific traits.

It feels strange having a story steeped in meaning led by a character who was born of none.

So do I stick with Mardek simply because it's what a few people are familiar with? How many people would that even be, exactly? MARDEK's reception on Steam will be a good way to gauge how much interest there actually is in the series. Obviously this blog is going to attract the minority who do have a lingering connection to the series, but limiting myself just to target that limited audience just doesn't seem right to me.

I mean, there are still people who'd want me to work on a Deliverance remake (or, even worse, to just expand the Flash version), because that's the thing they found during a time in their life they were most receptive. But it's just not feasible because I've long moved beyond it and the audience isn't enough to warrant it.

Would a hypothetical audience for an 'improved' version of the story, Divine Dreams, be any larger than the nostalgic few? I don't know. It's what I feel most creatively inspired to create though.

I mean, I'd absolutely love it if I could reward people's long-lasting interest in the MARDEK series, and I hope the essence of Divine Dreams will be similar enough that it pleases their minds in a similar way even if it doesn't resonate with that exact story thread. I just feel that some changes would be for the better.

I feel I've already talked about most or all of this before, several times, though it does seem to keep coming up because of objections to certain new directions... And I do appreciate people's interest and support, so I don't want to disappoint or just ignore what people have to say. So I try to explain my reasoning.

I've been needing to give the story another pass for a while anyway, so I'll likely be spending the next week (or more?) doing that.

I'm still unsure about the protagonist's appearance and name. Here's some concept art from last night:

I'm not sure about that at all! Refining the design will be a process. If I did go with this, I'd need to do something different with his knight form; obviously it couldn't have the M visor anymore. So there's design work to do, and it's important to do it right if this is to be the story's lead.

Anyway, I can understand why the recent Steam release of MARDEK might have rekindled desires to see a return to the MARDEK story, but Divine Dreams isn't that. At least, not exactly. It's a revision of the story, and that story has developed beyond the protagonist originally assigned to it. Changing the leading character opens up so many more interesting possibilities than sticking with the old just because it's familiar.

Which do you think is more important, though: telling a good story, even if things have to be changed, or sticking with what's familiar, even if some things are clunky or they close off opportunities for more interesting narrative turns?

EDIT: I REALLY like this idea!!

ANOTHER EDIT: I reeeeally like the designs in that image there! I went to bed with a huge smile for the first time in God knows how long last night, and I just keep looking at that image and feeling so pleased with it!

This is so rare for me. The creative process is rocky and full of doubt, but occasionally ideas just click like this and it feels like I've finally found what I was looking for all along. Feelings go from "eh, I'm not sure... maybe?", scrutinising every angle and wondering, to "YES YES YES!!", admiring every angle and grinning.

It's... disheartening when others aren't on board with it, but it is understandable.

I'll write a post specifically about the new ideas next weekend, and I'll spend the next few days brainstorming and revising designs to integrate everything together into a whole.

I want to reply to the comments that have touched on this individually, but I also want to make the point here that drastic ideas changing mid-production are likely more common than you'd expect; you just don't see them if all you ever do see is the end result. You're very much privy to the process here, backtracking and revisions and all! Of course it's going to be different to just seeing a finished work.

Clavis wasn't added to MARDEK 3 until right at the last minute! And did you know that the trials in Pokemon Sun and Moon - the replacement for the standard gyms - were added so late in production that they had to make do with the art assets the artists had already created since asset creation was finished?

21 COMMENTS

xinxin1~4Y

I think you should let yourself be free to be creative with the direction you want to take the story. You've obviously become a much more mature writer now and I think it'd be a disservice to yourself to limit your creativity to something you came up with more than a decade ago.

With respect to your work itself, while as you say Mardek's emptiness was suitable for what you wanted MARDEK 3 to be, the other characters and the world around him were definitely way more interesting. I think the latter is what the fans would appreciate more if you kept, spiritually or not. It'd be limiting for you if your protagonist was forced into the mold of a different story.

On another note, I really did love MARDEK 3's gameplay a lot, so more of that goodness would be great to see again.

NotBuckly1~4Y

Hey there, I'd like to mention that when you first revealed your idea on reimagining the protagonist I wasn't really sure about it. I can't put into words exactly "why" I did not like it. perhaps I was too attached to Mardek, or maybe it was just the shade of pink. But regardless, the design has since grown on me and I rather like it! I can imagine the appeal this new design has to you, as the appearance alone can bring much to the table of plot and story.

I love seeing how you have changed and grown over the years, improving upon that which is already there, and yet seemingly not afraid to expand upon the unfamiliar. Looking upon your older works, do you not get a sense of nostalgic pleasure? I imagine you were quite happy with those projects when you had made them at the time. Having such a history in this trade is a wonderful thing.

Ever since I first discovered your Mardek series I was ands still am inspired by you and your skills. I look forward to seeing what you continue to make!

I love seeing how you have changed and grown over the years, improving upon that which is already there, and yet seemingly not afraid to expand upon the unfamiliar. Looking upon your older works, do you not get a sense of nostalgic pleasure? I imagine you were quite happy with those projects when you had made them at the time. Having such a history in this trade is a wonderful thing.

Ever since I first discovered your Mardek series I was ands still am inspired by you and your skills.  I look forward to seeing what you continue to make!

facefacefaceface4~4Y

The redesign still seems like the right option to me, obviously it's hard to tell what the response will be like, but I think it makes more sense to try to make something high quality at the expense of nostalgia, because ideally drawing in a large number of new fans would be better than ending up only selling to those who wanted a Mardek remaster and nothing else. No matter the response though, I think you'd at least feel better for having made something you're truly proud of, than something that you feel could have been greatly improved.

I missed those silhouettes at the time, glad to see a very SunDog-looking figure in there.

I laughed at the Dave concept art purely because he suddenly looks like a really cool guy in his 20s, which wasn't what I was expecting at all. He also looks super smug, which his shades only add to. I prefer the goatee to the full beard, the beard makes him look even older, and a bit too serious. In any case, I think you should do the right thing and make his visor a large 'D' shape

I missed those silhouettes at the time, glad to see a very SunDog-looking figure in there.

I laughed at the Dave concept art purely because he suddenly looks like a really cool guy in his 20s, which wasn't what I was expecting at all. He also looks super smug, which his shades only add to. I prefer the goatee to the full beard, the beard makes him look even older, and a bit too serious. In any case, I think you should do the right thing and make his visor a large 'D' shape

Alban12320~4Y

Tobias!! I completely agree with you if this game is not Mardek than it should be done how you feel it's right.

I have an other suggestion though, for your Patreon page, i think if you put content like for ex: showing people steps of how to make a game with Unity, or Blender, i've seen that people love that and seeing that people love your games i'm sure they'd love to learn from you in how to make rpg games.

I've seen many people gain money just by telling people what they know, so what is unique about you? Is the way you make your games, and that's something only you can do, but what if you decide to use your knowledge for teaching people how to make 3D JRPG games like DD, i'm sure your Patreon page will be blown by supporters by donating to you monthly because they are not only enjoying your content but they are even learning from you.

JohnnyBoi45~4Y

So I was gonna show up with some big feisty comment, but before that I decided the read the first 2 blog posts you made about a Mardek remake to see if I actually had ground to stand on with my initial assumption that this project had changed significantly since its conception. I wasn't exactly right or wrong, but it did make me take stock of your initial goals and how the project now aligns with them.

I guess at the end of the day, you have a different idea of "what Mardek could have been" vs. myself (and others, I imagine). To me, "what Mardek could have been" is simply a relatively faithful completion of the original series (perhap using the more interesting visual designs of Taming Dreams). I might be the only one who defines that as my ideal Mardek remake, but what I suppose I'm saying is it's equally likely only you will ever define this project as your ideal Mardek remake. Which honestly makes me think you should just call this a new game, and not something related to Mardek. I read the posts and it's clear that every post including major changes is met with at least some skepticism, if not a lot. As this game develops, it just seems like continued comparison to Mardek will garner more negative attention than positive. And it seems that you're consistently putting much more stock in the idea that this game will reach a different audience from those who played/loved the original Mardek games, so you may as well just drop any pretense of this being related, as that audience won't care. Nobody can ever please everyone, so I guess you may as well please yourself.

I guess at the end of the day, you have a different idea of "what Mardek could have been" vs. myself (and others, I imagine). To me, "what Mardek could have been" is simply a relatively faithful completion of the original series (perhap using the more interesting visual designs of Taming Dreams). I might be the only one who defines that as my ideal Mardek remake, but what I suppose I'm saying is it's equally likely only you will ever define this project as your ideal Mardek remake. Which honestly makes me think you should just call this a new game, and not something related to Mardek. I read the posts and it's clear that every post including major changes is met with at least some skepticism, if not a lot. As this game develops, it just seems like continued comparison to Mardek will garner more negative attention than positive. And it seems that you're consistently putting much more stock in the idea that this game will reach a different audience from those who played/loved the original Mardek games, so you may as well just drop any pretense of this being related, as that audience won't care. Nobody can ever please everyone, so I guess you may as well please yourself.

Maniafig219~4Y

I find it interesting that most people's main reference point for Divine Dreams seems to be MARDEK, for me it's Taming Dreams I keep comparing it to!

Clipart Mardek should be a character in Divine Dreams. He doesn't have a 3D model or anytihng, he's just a flat HD sprite of that clipart.

Still, interesting to know that even back then Solaar and the Reptoids seemed to exist. It was always rather odd in MARDEK 3 how Solaar assumed the role of Guardian despite being much weaker than any individual guardian. I don't suppose we'll ever know what the original Dark guardian looked like? For the sake of staying on-brand I shall humorously propose the zany idea that it was a Goblin.

Interesting to see that Mardek's chapter 3 design already existed before chapter 1 was even a thing, it seems like his face portrait and in-battle models are actually the same as the chapter 3 release ones, I'd no idea!

It definitely seems to be common for any long-running project for some ideas to develop and shift around while the project is being worked on. Order of the Stick, for example!

I liked how the Earth Guardian was directly taken from Deliverance! The game even jokes about it, and the Guardian Theme literally quotes the Deliverance Guardian Theme which is really neat! Did I also ever mention that during my beta test run of MARDEK, I used Meraeador's Gas-O-Matic to constantly make the Guardian fall asleep and I won the fight without taking any damage? Well, now you know!!

It's a shame you never finished AF:C! So many different types of cute Goblins that have sadly gone uncreated!

I also wish Taming Dreams had continued! I've said this a lot of times already, but I really liked those episodes and I wish we could've had more! Here's hoping eventually we can play all three episodes on PC.

You forgot to mention that you also fleshed out Steele!! The GdM also changed quite significantly, I hope the Magisterium take some cues from the Atonae since I really liked those.

Obviously, comic Iron Man is a vast improvement over the puerile, tacky and embarrassing MCU design.

It's interesting to hear how exactly Donovan and Sharla's characters had formed! They did always feel like rather auxiliary characters, Sharla in particular. I know it was a popular theory when MARDEK 3 was being worked on that those two would be party members! Still, interesting that you could actually keep the two in the party, rather than them being disposed of after the Dark Temple quest.

I suppose there's also other characters who won't return. I doubt we'll be seeing Verhn since he wasn't even in AF:C, though I do wonder about characters like Meraeadyth's parents, Saul, Zach/Zahra and such.

IIRC, you had actually planned roles for Donovan and Sharla in Taming Dreams. Any chance we could get some insight on what their characters would've been like, given they won't be in Divine Dreams?

I do hope we get those character reveals eventually!!

A lot of names changed from MARDEK, though are they also different from their AF:C incarnations? Hm. I'm guessing the first two orange characters are Collie and Sylvia, and the third probably a Wintrel.

Anyway, yes, I do wonder whether we'll be seeing characters named Ghraafuar and Maka. I think Gloria was also renamed to Salvia in TD, right?

WHAT IF THE PUP IS AN ELARNA? It does seem none of the silhouettes match those of a Varnyn or Elarna.

I did like Mardek's character in Taming Dreams! I actually thought it was interesting how he contrasted with Rohoph, and it was even reinforced mechanically by his runes shifting between chapters 2 and 3 because of Rohoph's influence. His status as a blank slate seemed like it was actually going to be significant and tie in with the games themes. Rohoph outright called Mardek a tabula rasa and all!

I like the concept art Dayvha much more than the 3D model from the previous blog! He looks more like a distinct character instead of just Mardek put pink. It also helps that his outfit here matches his pink skin tone much better than the bright baby blue Cherub uniform does. Maybe if Mardek's design is different, the Cherub outfit also needs another look?

I especially like the version with the sunglasses. He really does look like a Dave, and like he's ready to go to a beach party, which makes sense given the setting! He also reminds me even more of Dave from Homestuck now. Which is obviously a good thing since he and Rose are the best of the four kids.

Maybe, given enough iterations, Mardek will transform into a Goblin. Then we can finally settle on the definitely definitive edition of Divine Dreams.

I find it interesting that most people's main reference point for Divine Dreams seems to be MARDEK, for me it's Taming Dreams I keep comparing it to!

Clipart Mardek should be a character in Divine Dreams. He doesn't have a 3D model or anytihng, he's just a flat HD sprite of that clipart.

Still, interesting to know that even back then Solaar and the Reptoids seemed to exist. It was always rather odd in MARDEK 3 how Solaar assumed the role of Guardian despite being much weaker than any individual guardian. I don't suppose we'll ever know what the original Dark guardian looked like? For the sake of staying on-brand I shall humorously propose the zany idea that it was a Goblin.

Interesting to see that Mardek's chapter 3 design already existed before chapter 1 was even a thing, it seems like his face portrait and in-battle models are actually the same as the chapter 3 release ones, I'd no idea!

It definitely seems to be common for any long-running project for some ideas to develop and shift around while the project is being worked on. Order of the Stick, for example!

I liked how the Earth Guardian was directly taken from Deliverance! The game even jokes about it, and the Guardian Theme literally quotes the Deliverance Guardian Theme which is really neat! Did I also ever mention that during my beta test run of MARDEK, I used Meraeador's Gas-O-Matic to constantly make the Guardian fall asleep and I won the fight without taking any damage? Well, now you know!!

It's a shame you never finished AF:C! So many different types of cute Goblins that have sadly gone uncreated!

I also wish Taming Dreams had continued! I've said this a lot of times already, but I really liked those episodes and I wish we could've had more! Here's hoping eventually we can play all three episodes on PC.

You forgot to mention that you also fleshed out Steele!! The GdM also changed quite significantly, I hope the Magisterium take some cues from the Atonae since I really liked those.

Obviously, comic Iron Man is a vast improvement over the puerile, tacky and embarrassing MCU design.

It's interesting to hear how exactly Donovan and Sharla's characters had formed! They did always feel like rather auxiliary characters, Sharla in particular. I know it was a popular theory when MARDEK 3 was being worked on that those two would be party members! Still, interesting that you could actually keep the two in the party, rather than them being disposed of after the Dark Temple quest.

I suppose there's also other characters who won't return. I doubt we'll be seeing Verhn since he wasn't even in AF:C, though I do wonder about characters like Meraeadyth's parents, Saul, Zach/Zahra and such.

IIRC, you had actually planned roles for Donovan and Sharla in Taming Dreams. Any chance we could get some insight on what their characters would've been like, given they won't be in Divine Dreams?

I do hope we get those character reveals eventually!!

A lot of names changed from MARDEK, though are they also different from their AF:C incarnations? Hm. I'm guessing the first two orange characters are Collie and Sylvia, and the third probably a Wintrel.

Anyway, yes, I do wonder whether we'll be seeing characters named Ghraafuar and Maka. I think Gloria was also renamed to Salvia in TD, right?

WHAT IF THE PUP IS AN ELARNA? It does seem none of the silhouettes match those of a Varnyn or Elarna.

I did like Mardek's character in Taming Dreams! I actually thought it was interesting how he contrasted with Rohoph, and it was even reinforced mechanically by his runes shifting between chapters 2 and 3 because of Rohoph's influence. His status as a blank slate seemed like it was actually going to be significant and tie in with the games themes. Rohoph outright called Mardek a tabula rasa and all!

I like the concept art Dayvha much more than the 3D model from the previous blog! He looks more like a distinct character instead of just Mardek put pink. It also helps that his outfit here matches his pink skin tone much better than the bright baby blue Cherub uniform does. Maybe if Mardek's design is different, the Cherub outfit also needs another look?

I especially like the version with the sunglasses. He really does look like a Dave, and like he's ready to go to a beach party, which makes sense given the setting! He also reminds me even more of Dave from Homestuck now. Which is obviously a good thing since he and Rose are the best of the four kids.

Maybe, given enough iterations, Mardek will transform into a Goblin. Then we can finally settle on the definitely definitive edition of Divine Dreams.

MontyCallay99~4Y

This adds some useful context to your last post, I think. It certainly makes sense that if this is what you want to make, you absolutely should! It's interesting, having seen these characters grow through the years as you developed them further.

As I said before, I like the idea of a redesigned protagonist! What put me off in the previous screenshots, I suppose, is more that it didn't feel as much like a redesign than just a Mardek with red skin and hair for horns. I feel your concept art gets the point across better! I'm looking forward to seeing where this character goes.

One of the things that doesn't entirely make sense to me is why the character is inspired by Christian imaginings of the devil, where so much of your recent world-building seems to be inspired by Indian and Buddhist mythology. It feels like something that you would normally consider too uninspired, not unique enough!

Tama_Yoshi82~4Y

Damn, really like the EDIT art. It does feel like that captures the easy-going attitude I liked about the original Mardek.

=> "Which do you think is more important, though: telling a good story, even if things have to be changed, or sticking with what's familiar, even if some things are clunky or they close off opportunities for more interesting narrative turns?"

I think this is narrow framing. It's probably fair to assume many people would agree that the old ideas are not so clunky, and/or could be reworked without deviating from the "core". The question as it stands, almost sounds like "Do you like good storytelling, or bad storytelling?!?!?!"

A fairer framing would be, "Is it best to catter to tropes and symbols preestablished demographically, or to risk new ideas to market for the sake of what I perceive is superior art?"

This framing reveals more clearly what is at issue here. People like what happened before. Maybe they don't trust you anymore, for some reason. Maybe people have grown out of MARDEK (but most people seem to at least like parts of what MARDEK was to a great extent), maybe they trust you a whole lot. But I think that from a pretty basic logistics point of view, because people are not in your head, it's more difficult to trust you than it is to distrust you. The only thing you can really do is to... do your thing. But then, this blog does masquerade somewhat as a platform for feedback, which adds friction to this picture.

Even the richest author in the world, J.K. Rowling, has broken the trust of a lot of people in a lot of different ways. She still has a following, but that's probably more a function of how established she is.

Questions about appropriation of art by the demographic is pretty difficult, and it's even more strange in the fairly unstirred indie scene. In academic terms, we would be talking about "death of the author," or how the author doesn't really have much control over how their art is perceived. But here, it's also kind of pre-art, or at the very least micro-cultural. Who gets to decide what is MARDEK? Is MARDEK even a "thing"? What does it mean for MARDEK to have a legacy?

In marketing terms, obviously, riding the wave of your own hype is useful, so using familiarity is objectively good, especially if you think your personal brand has less recognition than MARDEK itself. But with art? Nothing is objective with art. Except perhaps people's feelings. But talking about art that is yet to be made? That's far removed from objectivity.

As an amateur writer who started off a long time ago writing in Internet forums, about stories of a character named "Tama Yoshi" who existed on "Yoshi's Island" and somehow became a partial hero in repeatedly hyperbolic scenarios, I know what it means to carry over childhood characters over decades. Tama Yoshi is ~13 years old, creatively speaking, but I'm still currently writing him. Several characters that were made from the fanfictions are characters I use, and in some cases, the characters at root are not even my own but widely re-imagined versions of other people's characters. The main character of my first novel is not even my character at root. Interestingly, I've never branched off to the point of completely replacing characters, although I have agressively reimagined many characters with adult lens, sometimes deleting irrelevant characters and creating new ones. For some reason, I'm tenacious in preserving the spirit of the root characters, perhaps because I think they betray a certain speckle of wisdom, even if childlike. Applying mature lenses to a childlike ideation, to me, can go a long way.

Obviously, my situation is different because zero people care, so I can do whatever I want (for now).

Sharing my thoughts on your artistic process is quite a rollercoaster, personally. Sometimes, you frame your ideas in a certain way that makes me think you're headed a way I dislike. Then, you elaborate and I'm suddenly excited about the things you do. Fortunately, I'm not a very bubbly commentator, and I understand the complex dynamics of this whole process. Writing my own story is a rollercoaster too; I judge myself a bunch, and I think so far it's worked. If I project this onto you, it reveals that "judgmental ire" from external insights is wrong, because it's unnecessary. I've learned over time not to share partially unfinished work, because they WILL change, and sometimes getting bogged down in the first draft can be a bad thing, because often the end informs the beginning.

The only real way to change the way people react to you is to change the way you present yourself. Always remember a half-finished project will raise more eyebrows than a fully fleshed out, polished project. It's deceptively difficult to communicate your own uncertainties as an artist, because sometimes you're not even aware of them yourself. That can lead you to present certain things over-confidently, only to be criticized for something which you would likely reframe later along the road.

All projects have stuff which got on the cutting-room floor, which would make people mad. Imagine replacing the final product with the sum of the brainstorm entries in your creative journal. How absurd would that be? What does it say about how people react to creative blogs?

Damn, really like the EDIT art. It does feel like that captures the easy-going attitude I liked about the original Mardek.

=> "Which do you think is more important, though: telling a good story, even if things have to be changed, or sticking with what's familiar, even if some things are clunky or they close off opportunities for more interesting narrative turns?"

I think this is narrow framing. It's probably fair to assume many people would agree that the old ideas are not so clunky, and/or could be reworked without deviating from the "core". The question as it stands, almost sounds like "Do you like good storytelling, or bad storytelling?!?!?!"

A fairer framing would be, "Is it best to catter to tropes and symbols preestablished demographically, or to risk new ideas to market for the sake of what I perceive is superior art?"

This framing reveals more clearly what is at issue here. People like what happened before. Maybe they don't trust you anymore, for some reason. Maybe people have grown out of MARDEK (but most people seem to at least like parts of what MARDEK was to a great extent), maybe they trust you a whole lot. But I think that from a pretty basic logistics point of view, because people are not in your head, it's more difficult to trust you than it is to distrust you. The only thing you can really do is to... do your thing. But then, this blog does masquerade somewhat as a platform for feedback, which adds friction to this picture.

Even the richest author in the world, J.K. Rowling, has broken the trust of a lot of people in a lot of different ways. She still has a following, but that's probably more a function of how established she is.

Questions about appropriation of art by the demographic is pretty difficult, and it's even more strange in the fairly unstirred indie scene. In academic terms, we would be talking about "death of the author," or how the author doesn't really have much control over how their art is perceived. But here, it's also kind of pre-art, or at the very least micro-cultural. Who gets to decide what is MARDEK? Is MARDEK even a "thing"? What does it mean for MARDEK to have a legacy?

In marketing terms, obviously, riding the wave of your own hype is useful, so using familiarity is objectively good, especially if you think your personal brand has less recognition than MARDEK itself. But with art? Nothing is objective with art. Except perhaps people's feelings. But talking about art that is yet to be made? That's far removed from objectivity.

As an amateur writer who started off a long time ago writing in Internet forums, about stories of a character named "Tama Yoshi" who existed on "Yoshi's Island" and somehow became a partial hero in repeatedly hyperbolic scenarios, I know what it means to carry over childhood characters over decades. Tama Yoshi is ~13 years old, creatively speaking, but I'm still currently writing him. Several characters that were made from the fanfictions are characters I use, and in some cases, the characters at root are not even my own but widely re-imagined versions of other people's characters. The main character of my first novel is not even my character at root. Interestingly, I've never branched off to the point of completely replacing characters, although I have agressively reimagined many characters with adult lens, sometimes deleting irrelevant characters and creating new ones. For some reason, I'm tenacious in preserving the spirit of the root characters, perhaps because I think they betray a certain speckle of wisdom, even if childlike. Applying mature lenses to a childlike ideation, to me, can go a long way.

Obviously, my situation is different because zero people care, so I can do whatever I want (for now).

Sharing my thoughts on your artistic process is quite a rollercoaster, personally. Sometimes, you frame your ideas in a certain way that makes me think you're headed a way I dislike. Then, you elaborate and I'm suddenly excited about the things you do. Fortunately, I'm not a very bubbly commentator, and I understand the complex dynamics of this whole process. Writing my own story is a rollercoaster too; I judge myself a bunch, and I think so far it's worked. If I project this onto you, it reveals that "judgmental ire" from external insights is wrong, because it's unnecessary. I've learned over time not to share partially unfinished work, because they WILL change, and sometimes getting bogged down in the first draft can be a bad thing, because often the end informs the beginning.

The only real way to change the way people react to you is to change the way you present yourself. Always remember a half-finished project will raise more eyebrows than a fully fleshed out, polished project. It's deceptively difficult to communicate your own uncertainties as an artist, because sometimes you're not even aware of them yourself. That can lead you to present certain things over-confidently, only to be criticized for something which you would likely reframe later along the road.

All projects have stuff which got on the cutting-room floor, which would make people mad. Imagine replacing the final product with the sum of the brainstorm entries in your creative journal. How absurd would that be? What does it say about how people react to creative blogs?

astralwolf91~4Y

Hmmm, I will say you present a very compelling argument here Tobias. The best solution would probably be for releasing 2 games, one as a continuation to the original story setting and the other with the new protoganist, but of course, wholly impractical.

I will say, I am swayed by your points, but,
Don't you think that Divine Dreams was originally advertised as a remaster of sorts? And now it seems to be developing into more of a spiritual successor rather than a remaster? Any thoughts?

Tobias 1102~4Y

I've been trying to make the point that Divine Dreams is a 'reimagining' rather than a 'remaster' from the start, though, haven't I? Maybe that's poor communication on my part, I don't know... Not making it clear enough. It's always been the intention though. I mean, the title's changed and everything.

astralwolf91~4Y

Yeah, the title change should have been a big hint, but I had it in my head that it was going to be a remaster for some reason

MF11~4Y

I feel like there's a lot I could talk about all that stuff, but there's probably only 3 points that really matter:

1. Have you ever studied about cognitive biases? In case you didn't, I think you should give it a bit of a shot (at the very least I believe you would find it interesting, since you quite like psychology and all that). It can help a lot in understanding the behavior of people (the resistance to change, in this particular case, but it's a much, much broader topic), understanding those things on a "technical" level can really make it less draining emotionally.

2. That's one more reason for you to put more focus on the marketing side of Divine Dreams: at the moment the feedback you receive is extremely biased (basically everyone here strongly identifies with MARDEK and also has a strong sympathy towards you, personally). You can't know what most of the potential buyers think because most of them haven't played MARDEK and don't even know Divine Dreams is a thing.

3. You seem to have a recurring issue of constantly trying to improve and re-imagine your games (and thus have many unfinished projects), that isn't a uncommon problem at all (see [LINK] and [LINK], but sooner or later you will have to just stick to what you have already planned. Though you said on older posts that you have the bulk of the story all figured out, right? That's really, really good.

All that aside, the Steam release is in just two days, HYPE!

I feel like there's a lot I could talk about all that stuff, but there's probably only 3 points that really matter:

1. Have you ever studied about cognitive biases? In case you didn't, I think you should give it a bit of a shot (at the very least I believe you would find it interesting, since you quite like psychology and all that). It can help a lot in understanding the behavior of people (the resistance to change, in this particular case, but it's a much, much broader topic), understanding those things on a "technical" level can really make it less draining emotionally.

2. That's one more reason for you to put more focus on the marketing side of Divine Dreams: at the moment the feedback you receive is extremely biased (basically everyone here strongly identifies with MARDEK and also has a strong sympathy towards you, personally). You can't know what most of the potential buyers think because most of them haven't played MARDEK and don't even know Divine Dreams is a thing.

3. You seem to have a recurring issue of constantly trying to improve and re-imagine your games (and thus have many unfinished projects), that isn't a uncommon problem at all (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh0F9m1O4gk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoG-uwWaJJM), but sooner or later you will have to just stick to what you have already planned. Though you said on older posts that you have the bulk of the story all figured out, right? That's really, really good.

All that aside, the Steam release is in just two days, HYPE!

Tobias 1102~4Y

I recently spent three years earning a degree in Psychology, so I know a bit about cognitive biases! I wrote a couple of posts a while back where I talked about some relevant ones (notably the Mere Exposure Effect)... but I can't find them, despite looking just now! Annoying. I understand why people react as they do to change, though it seems as if the people themselves don't understand why they prefer the old to the new, which is a cause of distress for me because regardless of the cause, the feelings are real.

Those are some really useful and true videos! It's something I wish I could explain to people regarding MARDEK; that eight-chapter dream was born of naive greed, and it was only by trying to do it that I learned how tall the mountain was (though I did actually finish three chapters of it, which isn't nothing).

But I'm different now to when I just started. I'm not interested in jumping around between projects, or falling victim to feature creep and development bloat. I've structured my plans in such a way that I have a finite, achieveable set of goals which should also, if all goes well, build up momentum in a way that a series of unconnected short games wouldn't (that is, I've got three games made up of six discrete dungeons each, and I know what all those dungeons will be). Once I lay the foundations, I can use these characters and gameplay mechanics to extend the story to additional games which might actually be quicker to produce - and more appealing to players due to familarity and being hooked by what came before - than coming up with a bunch of novel ideas which might not stick.

That said, I also feel that some changes are worth making to these foundations before I build on them, if the cost isn't too great. I'd rather keep this revised battle system for the three games than the more limited and less enjoyable one that I had before. I feel this new protagonist will make for a better story than just reusing Mardek.

I suspect that a lot of games undergo significant changes in direction behind the scenes - I've certainly seen many stories about this - but players never see the end result. The same is true of films and novels and every creative work, too.

So it's important to stick with something and finish it! But I'm not a naive young developer who doesn't understand the amount of work I'm setting for myself, and I make these big changes consciously, knowing what they entail. It feels worth it in the long run.

Those are some really useful and true videos! It's something I wish I could explain to people regarding MARDEK; that eight-chapter dream was born of naive greed, and it was only by trying to do it that I learned how tall the mountain was (though I did actually finish three chapters of it, which isn't nothing).

But I'm different now to when I just started. I'm not interested in jumping around between projects, or falling victim to feature creep and development bloat. I've structured my plans in such a way that I have a finite, achieveable set of goals which should /also/, if all goes well, build up momentum in a way that a series of unconnected short games wouldn't (that is, I've got three games made up of six discrete dungeons each, and I know what all those dungeons will be). Once I lay the foundations, I can use these characters and gameplay mechanics to extend the story to additional games which might actually be quicker to produce - and more appealing to players due to familarity and being hooked by what came before - than coming up with a bunch of novel ideas which might not stick.

That said, I also feel that some changes are worth making to these foundations before I build on them, if the cost isn't /too/ great. I'd rather keep this revised battle system for the three games than the more limited and less enjoyable one that I had before. I feel this new protagonist will make for a better story than just reusing Mardek.

I suspect that a lot of games undergo significant changes in direction behind the scenes - I've certainly seen many stories about this - but players never see the end result. The same is true of films and novels and every creative work, too.

So it's important to stick with something and finish it! But I'm not a naive young developer who doesn't understand the amount of work I'm setting for myself, and I make these big changes consciously, knowing what they entail. It feels worth it in the long run.

DonVicente4~4Y

I don't have a strong opinion either way about the protagonist, but there's something I've been wondering for a while now, which is related to the branding of the game, I suppose?

I always thought it would be a good idea to keep "MARDEK" in the name of this re-imagining of the game, even if you had to call it something like "MARDEK: Divine Dreams", just because if anybody ever got nostalgic or wanted to search for MARDEK in the future, I guess that would make this game much more likely to come up.

I'm not sure if you still care too much about trying to leverage your old fanbase in any way, I mostly still read all your blog posts but it's hard to remember all you've said. If you do, the name would be important to make it instantly recognizable. If you're not trying too hard to get some people from the old days to play this game and would rather focus on getting new players, I would like to suggest itch.io, I don't remember it being mentioned before, though I mostly don't read the comments, but for the past years I've seen quite a few indie games grow a small community starting from that site, it reminds me a bit of the old flash portals since the easiest way to get noticed is to get featured by the staff and shown on the front page. Maybe once you have your demo you can also use that site, in addition to any other thing you're already planning to do.

I'd love to comment more often here, but it takes me a long time to write even a short post like this one. I always like reading your blog and seeing you hard at work, keep it up!

I don't have a strong opinion either way about the protagonist, but there's something I've been wondering for a while now, which is related to the branding of the game, I suppose?

I always thought it would be a good idea to keep "MARDEK" in the name of this re-imagining of the game, even if you had to call it something like "MARDEK: Divine Dreams", just because if anybody ever got nostalgic or wanted to search for MARDEK in the future, I guess that would make this game much more likely to come up.

I'm not sure if you still care too much about trying to leverage your old fanbase in any way, I mostly still read all your blog posts but it's hard to remember all you've said. If you do, the name would be important to make it instantly recognizable. If you're not trying too hard to get some people from the old days to play this game and would rather focus on getting new players, I would like to suggest itch.io, I don't remember it being mentioned before, though I mostly don't read the comments, but for the past years I've seen quite a few indie games grow a small community starting  from that site, it reminds me a bit of the old flash portals since the easiest way to get noticed is to get featured by the staff and shown on the front page. Maybe once you have your demo you can also use that site, in addition to any other thing you're already planning to do.

I'd love to comment more often here, but it takes me a long time to write even a short post like this one. I always like reading your blog and seeing you hard at work, keep it up!

Tobias 1102~4Y

Hello! It's nice to hear from you again, though I do understand the effort and energy involved, and appreciate that you took the time to spend those! (Imagine how it is for me replying to a bunch of these comments, and writing the posts in the first place!! I do enjoy it though.)

What I'm most likely to do is have something like "FROM THE CREATOR OF MARDEK" in the descriptions and branding, rather than in the title. I want to stress to people that it's not MARDEK, since I feel that all they'd do is notice the differences and get upset about them, like how people are upset about me changing the protagonist because it's not the Mardek they remember/expected. I want to make use of MARDEK (and to make something that can make old MARDEK fans happy), but I also feel like I don't want to be restricted by it forever, like some ball and chain I can't drop.

I've never actually used itch.io, though I've been hearing more about it the more I research indie games development. It feels less... official than Steam, though? Maybe. I definitely get the feeling of the old Flash portals from it, or mobile games maybe, but the thought of going back to that world feels like a step backwards... I don't know, though; I wonder if it'd be possible to add games both on there and Steam?

Honestly I'm afraid of building up any kind of community again, and exposing myself to larger groups of people seems so undesirable for that reason... I wish I could just make games in private, show them to a few people and get thoughtful, detailed comments like on this blog, and at the same time earn enough money to keep doing it... That'd be ideal. It's a shame that might not be possible though.

What I'm most likely to do is have something like "FROM THE CREATOR OF MARDEK" in the descriptions and branding, rather than in the title. I want to stress to people that it's /not/ MARDEK, since I feel that all they'd do is notice the differences and get upset about them, like how people are upset about me changing the protagonist because it's not the Mardek they remember/expected. I want to make use of MARDEK (and to make something that can make old MARDEK fans happy), but I also feel like I don't want to be restricted by it forever, like some ball and chain I can't drop.

I've never actually used itch.io, though I've been hearing more about it the more I research indie games development. It feels less... official than Steam, though? Maybe. I definitely get the feeling of the old Flash portals from it, or mobile games maybe, but the thought of going back to that world feels like a step backwards... I don't know, though; I wonder if it'd be possible to add games both on there /and/ Steam?

Honestly I'm afraid of building up any kind of community again, and exposing myself to larger groups of people seems so undesirable for that reason... I wish I could just make games in private, show them to a few people and get thoughtful, detailed comments like on this blog, and at the same time earn enough money to keep doing it... That'd be ideal. It's a shame that might not be possible though.

DonVicente4~4Y

It makes sense to change the name if you want to make it clear that this game is not a re-make of MARDEK, more like what would happen if you tried to make MARDEK today, as a very different person than you were back then. That's completely fair and I do believe you're good enough at making games to succeed, even though it's incredibly hard.

From what I've seen most games that do well in itch.io eventually release on steam, it's used more or less like an early-access platform, where people can buy the game while it's still in development, or developers just upload early versions of games to get people interested in their projects. So it should be fine to use itch.io before going to steam. Part of what makes it interesting to me is the fact that it's much less formal and official than steam, so you can try out different things there and see how it goes before 'really' releasing the game.

For the community, I think if you want the bare minimum stress, focusing on the email list where it's a one way communication would be fine, the most important part is probably to keep people who are interested in your game engaged, so they don't forget it exists. This blog is also a good place for the community, I guess, but if you ever had lots of people coming here it would be impossible to keep up with all the comments, the reason it's relatively nice now is because it's few people and sort of restricted.

I think having a completely open discord server might be too stressful, specially if you have to moderate it. I've seen a few discords for games, and when the game barely has any attention it's not bad, but it still has to be moderated and apparently bots joining the server are also a problem. For bigger games I think moderators just take care of them since it's too much for the developers, who have more important things to do.
Maybe the patreon access to discord is a good idea, I joined one discord like that and it seems really nice compared to the 'open' servers, though I'm guessing it still needs some level of moderation.

In any case managing a community once it's big enough seems like a full time job, so it's hard to know what the best thing to do is, I suppose it would be good to try different things and see what works and what doesn't.

From what I've seen most games that do well in itch.io eventually release on steam, it's used more or less like an early-access platform, where people can buy the game while it's still in development, or developers just upload early versions of games to get people interested in their projects. So it should be fine to use itch.io before going to steam. Part of what makes it interesting to me is the fact that it's much less formal and official than steam, so you can try out different things there and see how it goes before 'really' releasing the game.

For the community, I think if you want the bare minimum stress, focusing on the email list where it's a one way communication would be fine, the most important part is probably to  keep people who are interested in your game engaged, so they don't forget it exists. This blog is also a good place for the community, I guess, but if you ever had lots of people coming here it would be impossible to keep up with all the comments, the reason it's relatively nice now is because it's few people and sort of restricted.

I think having a completely open discord server might be too stressful, specially if you have to moderate it. I've seen a few discords for games, and when the game barely has any attention it's not bad, but it still has to be moderated and apparently bots joining the server are also a problem. For bigger games I think moderators just take care of them since it's too much for the developers, who have more important things to do.
Maybe the patreon access to discord is a good idea, I joined one discord like that and it seems really nice compared to the 'open' servers, though I'm guessing it still needs some level of moderation.

In any case managing a community once it's big enough seems like a full time job, so it's hard to know what the best thing to do is, I suppose it would be good to try different things and see what works and what doesn't.

snipo1019~4Y

It sounds like you've really been trying to refine these same ideas for your entire creative career! This is clearly a story and group of characters that's very near to your heart, and it's unfair of anyone else, I think, to attempt to dictate to you how to tell it. And I have no doubt, after seeing what I have, that you've got some great things in store.

Another thing that's impossible to overstate is your level of improvement over the years, in so many areas. As a personal anecdote, I last visited this website after your release of Taming Dreams and only rediscovered it when your recent demo release popped up in my youtube subscription feed a couple months ago. Watching that demo video, I couldn't believe my own eyes and ears. It combined many things I loved about both MARDEK and Taming Dreams and improved on them in nearly every aspect while also preserving - as you put it - the essence of the story.

In light of your recent posts about changing the main character, my worry is this: How good is "good enough"? I get the impression, especially as I go over the contents of this blog post, that you have a tendency, an urge, to constantly tweak, edit, and refine as you go until you reach a certain ideal. However, as your skills increase, the goalpost seems to move higher and higher. Does the cycle have an end? I don't know. Seeking a high level of art is an admirable goal, as admirable as they get, in fact, so I know where you're coming from. But it does make me wonder!

Also, I think that seeing the number of characters that have been substantively changed from MARDEK and Taming Dreams was... eye-widening, to say the least. One of the biggest things about the demo that drew me in was how recognizable all the characters were, and even if Dayvha is an improvement over Mardek (which I actually think he is, aesthetically, personality remaining largely yet to be seen), replacing such a large portion of the cast feels like a lot, compared to what the demo showed. I will agree, however, that your assessment of Mardek is spot on. He is bland, especially in MARDEK, and that's one of the most difficult things to reconcile if you see it as an innate, immovable part of who he is. I've always seen it as a character flaw, though - something to be developed, exploited, and reconciled as he progresses through his story as a character (That's how I interpreted many parts of MARDEK Chapter 3, actually, especially the ending, as it revealed how much harm his passivity has caused). That's not really my call to make, though, and I hope sharing these thoughts isn't too presumptuous!

So what should you do? I think that you should do what gives you peace of mind, especially in your own art. But I'd also challenge you to find the merits in past you. Take an old idea - something you believe to be (or even something that IS) trite, uninspired, et cetera - and try to see it in a new light. Spin it into something positive. I see you repeatedly putting down the past you, and I always find it deeply saddening. Neither of you deserve that, not current you for the embarrassment you talk about, nor past you who was having a hard time and simply doing his best.

Because MARDEK, despite being crafted by a past you who was not as skilled as he is now, struck a certain balance that appealed to people. At its core, it was imaginative, silly, and relatable, but also challenging to the mind, despite all of the classic fantasy tropes it may have ripped off. Or perhaps in part because of them. Cliches do have that benefit of being recognizable, after all. I have to admit, even as I type this I don't really know what an ideal re-imagining of MARDEK would look like to me! I just think that past you is you, too, and it's okay to embrace that as much as the current you; even if it's not as developed in some ways, it still has great strengths in others!

Another thing that's impossible to overstate is your level of improvement over the years, in so many areas. As a personal anecdote, I last visited this website after your release of Taming Dreams and only rediscovered it when your recent demo release popped up in my youtube subscription feed a couple months ago. Watching that demo video, I couldn't believe my own eyes and ears. It combined many things I loved about both MARDEK and Taming Dreams and improved on them in nearly every aspect while also preserving - as you put it - the essence of the story.

In light of your recent posts about changing the main character, my worry is this: How good is "good enough"? I get the impression, especially as I go over the contents of this blog post, that you have a tendency, an urge, to constantly tweak, edit, and refine as you go until you reach a certain ideal. However, as your skills increase, the goalpost seems to move higher and higher. Does the cycle have an end? I don't know. Seeking a high level of art is an admirable goal, as admirable as they get, in fact, so I know where you're coming from. But it does make me wonder!

Also, I think that seeing the number of characters that have been substantively changed from MARDEK and Taming Dreams was... eye-widening, to say the least. One of the biggest things about the demo that drew me in was how recognizable all the characters were, and even if Dayvha is an improvement over Mardek (which I actually think he is, aesthetically, personality remaining largely yet to be seen), replacing such a large portion of the cast feels like a lot, compared to what the demo showed. I will agree, however, that your assessment of Mardek is spot on. He is bland, especially in MARDEK, and that's one of the most difficult things to reconcile if you see it as an innate, immovable part of who he is. I've always seen it as a character flaw, though - something to be developed, exploited, and reconciled as he progresses through his story as a character (That's how I interpreted many parts of MARDEK Chapter 3, actually, especially the ending, as it revealed how much harm his passivity has caused). That's not really my call to make, though, and I hope sharing these thoughts isn't too presumptuous!

So what should you do? I think that you should do what gives you peace of mind, especially in your own art. But I'd also challenge you to find the merits in past you. Take an old idea - something you believe to be (or even something that IS) trite, uninspired, et cetera - and try to see it in a new light. Spin it into something positive. I see you repeatedly putting down the past you, and I always find it deeply saddening. Neither of you deserve that, not current you for the embarrassment you talk about, nor past you who was having a hard time and simply doing his best.

Because MARDEK, despite being crafted by a past you who was not as skilled as he is now, struck a certain balance that appealed to people. At its core, it was imaginative, silly, and relatable, but also challenging to the mind, despite all of the classic fantasy tropes it may have ripped off. Or perhaps in part because of them. Cliches do have that benefit of being recognizable, after all. I have to admit, even as I type this I don't really know what an ideal re-imagining of MARDEK would look like to me! I just think that past you is you, too, and it's okay to embrace that as much as the current you; even if it's not as developed in some ways, it still has great strengths in others!

purplerabbits146~4Y

I see that it's a struggle between what sells and what makes the artist happy. I personality am all for the what makes the artist happy angle, thought I do understand the isuues of financial incentives.

I remember someone doing a review about Inside and how the very basic premise of the game is very similar to their previous game Limbo. The premise of "boy goes right, faces obstacles, until goal is reached." However that premise doesn't capture how very different the journey of those games are.

I feel like DD may be similar to the analogy above. MARDEK shares the roots, but ultimately there's something different and, I personally think, rather interesting ways things can go.

It's interesting to see the evolution of ideas and concepts. Sometimes ideas once abandoned get revived, while others shift and change until its barely recognizable to the original. I remember with Overwatch, a popular fps game, one of the characters Tracer was actually an idea from one of Blzzard's biggest flops, but got recycles and is now part of one of the most popular games.

So I see no problem of changing Mardek to Dayvah is no problem to me. Though it does tickle my funny bone because in my dnd campain there is a Deva who is nicknamed Dave , as the character completely ignores the Deva's actual name xD

Another random analogy, The earlier games are like a starter pokemon, as you level up as a developer your games also become more complex and become different. Some have different typings (like turn based rpg's, or 2d platformers). To me, it seems that some people are attached to a certain stage of evolution,(like how a high number of Torracats are kept from evolving because so many people hate Incineroar's design) while you're here trying to show the mega evolution. I'll go with Mega Gyarados for this example. Some people are disapointed that Mega Gyarados is a Water/Dark type instead of a Water/Dragon type.

I feel like you are trying to get approval, but I think you should go with whatever ideas and refine them without needing validation all the time. I personally think trying to cater every single angle to everyone's aproval may dilute a really interesting story. I can think of the scene in Avatar the Last Airbender where Zuko, a prominent antagonist, for a good chunk of the story has a choice of changing aliances to the protagonists or staying loyal to the antagonist's (fire nation's) side. Zuko chose to stay loyal at the time. However even though people were upset, It lead to a more meaningful impact when Zuko eventually decided to join the protagonist's side much later on.

I'm all down for whatever changes. A part of me would like to see how MARDEK would end, but you are not the past Tobias, so I don't think current Tobias can make a version of MARDEK that'll fit (kinda like trying to force 2 puzzle pieces together, but they came from different boxes)

I'm atempting to make my iwn game and changes in ideas an direction happen all the time. my initial idea started out as a oneshot, and now it's turned into a theme of 3-4. Though I'm forcing myself to concentrate on the first for now since letting a project get too big before liftoff will kill all drive.

I remember someone doing a review about Inside and how the very basic premise of the game is very similar to their previous game Limbo. The premise of "boy goes right, faces obstacles, until goal is reached." However that premise doesn't capture how very different the journey of those games are.

I feel like DD may be similar to the analogy above. MARDEK shares the roots, but ultimately there's something different and, I personally think, rather interesting ways things can go.

It's interesting to see the evolution of ideas and concepts. Sometimes ideas once abandoned get revived, while others shift and change until its barely recognizable to the original. I remember with Overwatch, a popular fps game, one of the characters Tracer was actually an idea from one of Blzzard's biggest flops, but got recycles and is now part of one of the most popular games.

So I see no problem of changing Mardek to Dayvah is no problem to me. Though it does tickle my funny bone because in my dnd campain there is a Deva who is nicknamed Dave , as the character completely ignores the Deva's actual name xD

Another random analogy, The earlier games are like a starter pokemon, as you level up as a developer your games also become more complex and become different. Some have different typings (like turn based rpg's, or 2d platformers). To me, it seems that some people are attached to a certain stage of evolution,(like how a high number of Torracats are kept from evolving because so many people hate Incineroar's design) while you're here trying to show the mega evolution. I'll go with Mega Gyarados for this example. Some people are disapointed that Mega Gyarados is a Water/Dark type instead of a Water/Dragon type.

I feel like you are trying to get approval, but I think you should go with whatever ideas and refine them without needing validation all the time. I personally think trying to cater every single angle to everyone's aproval may dilute a really interesting story. I can think of the scene in Avatar the Last Airbender where Zuko, a prominent antagonist, for a good chunk of the story has a choice of changing aliances to the protagonists or staying loyal to the antagonist's (fire nation's) side. Zuko chose to stay loyal at the time. However even though people were upset, It lead to a more meaningful impact when Zuko eventually decided to join the protagonist's side much later on.

I'm all down for whatever changes. A part of me would like to see how MARDEK would end, but you are not the past Tobias, so I don't think current Tobias can make a version of MARDEK that'll fit (kinda like trying to force 2 puzzle pieces together,  but they came from different boxes)

I'm atempting to make my iwn game and changes in ideas an direction happen all the time. my initial idea started out as a oneshot, and now it's turned into a theme of 3-4. Though I'm forcing myself to concentrate on the first for now since letting a project get too big before liftoff will kill all drive.

Tama_Yoshi82~4Y

Tangentially, Philosophy Tube published a video on anti-semitism. I found it interesting from the perspective of "othering," because it goes into surprising dynamics by which it occurs.

Sometimes the act of othering is indirectly reinforced politically (e.g. if bigots hurt your enemies, you can enable bigots, despite not believing the insane things they believe. So if the political power in place benefits from bigots, that's also bad).

Another is, sometimes people seem to "just" want to find their own boogeyman to explain their failings (I didn't study for this exam. The reason I failed though? Those guys, obviously!!!). In Sartre's own words, "If they did not exist, they would create them."

Food for thought for Dayvah's character development.

[LINK]

Ptyrell37~4Y

Since you are the sole creator, I think whatever inspires you the most is the way to go. If you are excited about what you are working on, that leads to a better product and better enjoyment by all who play it.

Sekhmet10~4Y

Wow, nice story. It's funny to see how long the path has been from the first idea to now!

First, I'm a big fan of the MARDEK series. I downloaded the flash player version, and I'm seriously thinking about buying the steam version just to support you, but it seems the game only work with windows...
I wanted to thank you for this game.

It is interesting to follow your way of creating, and I fully understand why the original Mardek character does not fit anymore. Now that I think about it, I feel the same.
Sometimes an idea starts with A, then you add B because it fits well with A, then C because it makes sense, then, D, E, and so on.
And at some point you realize that A is not needed anymore and has to be changed. Even if you started out with it, it does not mean you have to keep it like that...

I totally agree to reimagining MARDEK by keeping the "spirit" of the story, and improving details. To be honest, I didn't like much the main character, I prefered the other that were more complex (and growing more complex with the story).

I will try to give my opinion on what I consider to be the "soul" of the game, what made me love the game. It is my personal opinion, you may agree or not ;).

1) The story building slowly and becoming more complex. It starts out with obvious "bad guys" and "good guys", but as the story goes on it seems that there is more to that (Rohoph becoming strange...). Most characters are simple at first, and we discover new secrets as the story goes. As long as the time passes, we also travel in the past of the characters, and that makes them more human (flaws and fears) and that's awesome. Even Sharla and Donoval (who started out, to me in chap 2, as "we need two other non-played characters in the royal guard, so let's make a fire and an air and put them in the story") have a nice background and interesting personality traits (Mardek himself does not have much, maybe that's why I was not so fond of him).
This also applies for the universe : in chapter 1, simple fantasy setting with an additional thing with the elements. "classic". A bit of Sci-Fi adds-up. Why not. And as the story goes, we discover more about the way this universe works, and that's wonderful. The dreamrealm, the deities, crystals, ...
I also love the idea that you can go back in a place you visited in previous chapters, but there something new you can reach now (dreamrealm, water temple). It fits with this global idea of "the game is growing".

2) Of course, the humour. All of the item descriptions, the dialogs and the rest are juste awesome. All these little remarks, breaking the fourth wall all the time, reactions to non-logical situations (the zombies going out of the catcombs but you need the key to get in, the sewer system bigger than the city...) are just hilarious.
Strangely, the mixing of the complex story with this strong humour works. Wow.
As far as I've seen from the beginning of DD, you'll keep this spirit. :)

3) The interesting mechanics of the game. Especially the way of learning skills, and items. It really made me think all the time of how to complete the game and teach every possible skill to every possible character. Even a "bad" item could be interesting if there was a little skill to learn with.

The only thing I didn' like was the size of the inventory. Too small! :)

All these things don't need the original hero, and it makes sense to change him/her to make an awesome game in the same spirit.
If fans really want it, since you're probably going to have a lot of small secondary characters everywhere, you can always put somewhere a little boy called "Mardek" that just talks with the main character about his dreams of becoming a great hero, and that's all.

Keep creating, keep changing your mind, keep re-using ideas and modifying things until it becomes a great game. I'm looking forward to it :).

Wow, nice story. It's funny to see how long the path has been from the first idea to now!

First, I'm a big fan of the MARDEK series. I downloaded the flash player version, and I'm seriously thinking about buying the steam version just to support you, but it seems the game only work with windows...
I wanted to thank you for this game.

It is interesting to follow your way of creating, and I fully understand why the original Mardek character does not fit anymore. Now that I think about it, I feel the same.
Sometimes an idea starts with A, then you add B because it fits well with A, then C because it makes sense, then, D, E, and so on.
And at some point you realize that A is not needed anymore and has to be changed. Even if you started out with it, it does not mean you have to keep it like that...

I totally agree to reimagining MARDEK by keeping the "spirit" of the story, and improving details. To be honest, I didn't like much the main character, I prefered the other that were more complex (and growing more complex with the story).

I will try to give my opinion on what I consider to be the "soul" of the game, what made me love the game. It is my personal opinion, you may agree or not ;).

1) The story building slowly and becoming more complex. It starts out with obvious "bad guys" and "good guys", but as the story goes on it seems that there is more to that (Rohoph becoming strange...). Most characters are simple at first, and we discover new secrets as the story goes. As long as the time passes, we also travel in the past of the characters, and that makes them more human (flaws and fears) and that's awesome. Even Sharla and Donoval (who started out, to me in chap 2, as "we need two other non-played characters in the royal guard, so let's make a fire and an air and put them in the story") have a nice background and interesting personality traits (Mardek himself does not have much, maybe that's why I was not so fond of him).
This also applies for the universe : in chapter 1, simple fantasy setting with an additional thing with the elements. "classic". A bit of Sci-Fi adds-up. Why not. And as the story goes, we discover more about the way this universe works, and that's wonderful. The dreamrealm, the deities, crystals, ...
I also love the idea that you can go back in a place you visited in previous chapters, but there something new you can reach now (dreamrealm,  water temple). It fits with this global idea of "the game is growing".

2) Of course, the humour. All of the item descriptions, the dialogs and the rest are juste awesome. All these little remarks, breaking the fourth wall all the time, reactions to non-logical situations (the zombies going out of the catcombs but you need the key to get in, the sewer system bigger than the city...) are just hilarious. 
Strangely, the mixing of the complex story with this strong humour works. Wow.
As far as I've seen from the beginning of DD, you'll keep this spirit. :)

3) The interesting mechanics of the game. Especially the way of learning skills, and items. It really made me think all the time of how to complete the game and teach every possible skill to every possible character. Even a "bad" item could be interesting if there was a little skill to learn with.

The only thing I didn' like was the size of the inventory. Too small! :)

All these things don't need the original hero, and it makes sense to change him/her to make an awesome game in the same spirit.
If fans really want it, since you're probably going to have a lot of small secondary characters everywhere, you can always put somewhere a little boy called "Mardek" that just talks with the main character about his dreams of becoming a great hero, and that's all.

Keep creating, keep changing your mind, keep re-using ideas and modifying things until it becomes a great game. I'm looking forward to it :).