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Savitr & Collie
4 years ago - Edited 4 years ago1,852 words
I've made 3D models for the two main characters of this still-unnamed shorter Divine Dreams RPG this week: Savitr, the Seraph paragon, and Collie, his (ridiculous) caninely-quirky Cherub apprentice. Quite a contrast!



Savitr is a half-Lucen/half-Bold Seraph who's the father of Dayvha, protagonist of Divine Dreams. He's roughly based on MARDEK's Enki, though he's got a deeper backstory and general story involvement. This shorter game will mostly explore the contrast between his bright, angelic exterior and role, and his darker internal conflicts which motivate him to do what he does.

Collie - who's based on (or rather, just a direct translation of, as she's changed little) a character from Taming Dreams - is a fresh new Cherub (with a newly-designed uniform) who idolises Savitr and has always dreamed of becoming like him. For whatever reason, she acts like a dog. It's silly.

Together, they have a master & apprentice dynamic. He's the wise and world-weary competent mentor, while she's the excitable, energetic youth who acts in part as an audience surrogate as she learns the ropes and asks Savitr about the ways of the world.



I spent this week making those models, and I've already added them to the game (technically; I can run around as them and check their stats, but they can't battle yet):



I haven't actually built any of this 'prelude' game's areas yet or anything - so this is using the Dreamcave I already have - but here they are on the menu, to clarify that what I'm doing is making use of what I've already built as much as anything.

In terms of gameplay, it'll be interesting having Savitr much more powerful in terms of stats and skills than Collie; it wouldn't make sense at all if this greatest of Seraphim was no more skilled than a fresh new Cherub! Perhaps a big part of the gameplay, then, would be Savitr protecting and guiding Collie?

I've also given some thought to their weapons. As I've talked about in previous posts, I like the idea of using music as a medium for magical miasma manipulation; by playing music, people are able to bring out inner feelings that warp the miasma into spells. So characters might all have tools which are a combination of weapons and musical instruments.

I originally gave Savitr a pair of angelic trumpets, and Collie an axe + guitar combo, but there were various irritating issues with both of them.

I really liked the weapon concept that I came up with for Dayvha, as shown in this image from a few posts ago:



They're a pair of slender crystal swords called 'resonars', as they resonate - both sonically and with the user's inner emotions - when rubbed together like a bow against the strings of a violin (which is what they'd sound like). It's a concept I really wanted to do something with.

After some frustrated fiddling around with Savitr's trumpets, I wondered whether he might also use these resonars:



It'd make some sense for father and son to use the same style of weapon. Perhaps this could even be extended: maybe resonars are the signature weapon of the Seraphim, like lightsabers (which they obviously resemble) are the signature weapon of the Jedi?

With that in mind, I wondered whether Collie, too, could have the same weapon type - I've already been internally likening Savitr and Collie to Qui-Gon and Obi Wan from Star Wars Episode 1 - though with some variation to keep things interesting:



She uses one resonar with a shield, and rubs the crystal blade against a crystal embedded in the shield. The shape this makes is reminiscent of a guitar. From a gameplay perspective, this would make her blocking straightforward, and her attacks more basic than Savitr's (he'd hit once with each resonar with the Attack command); this makes her feel more like an apprentice, and him more like a master.

If both characters used these resonars, it'd mean that you could potentially find - or more sensibly, maybe Savitr could craft - others, which you could equip to either of Savitr's hands, or to Collie's weapon hand, whichever you preferred. I feel like the choice and variety there would be more appealing than just acquiring ever-more-powerful upgrades to very specific types of weapons (eg an axe-guitar).



They'd have names that make their crystalline nature more obvious.



And Collie might start with one which is pure, typeless, while Savitr's are more specifically elemental, again because she's just learning and he's been at this for a while.

(I've not even started sorting out equipment or skill or stat details yet!)

I also like this from my position as the creator, because it allows for fairly straightforward animations. Perhaps the biggest issue with Collie's axe-guitar concept (for example) was that transitioning between its weapon and instrument poses -



- would either require a delay, or an ugly animation cut, or something. It's the sort of thing which is easier to think about than it is to practically make!



That's all surface stuff, though; more interesting to me is the actual character of the characters... though I can't really talk about that too much without spoiling everything.

I spent yesterday writing one of these "Divine Scenes" things - like ∞ the one I had with an early version of Dayvha and Deugan a while back ∞ - to get a feel for their speaking styles, emoting, and how they'd interact with one another. It also hints at some story stuff (and is inappropriately set in the Dreamcave because I haven't made other environments yet) (also, there's no sound, and the poses aren't animated yet):



The game itself would begin with a battle against another character, but after that, a scene pretty similar in content to this one would play out. It introduces a lot of stuff about the world, story, and characters without being an unnatural expositional lecture, I feel (unlike much of the dialogue in the early sections of Octopath Traveler; "as you know, my lifelong friend who I'm currently having a fairly casual interaction with, here's my life story and motivation").

I find the "sometimes inappropriately sexual obsessive fangirl" and "eccentric ∞ dog ∞ person" angles for Collie amusing - especially as a contrast for the more serious and troubled Savitr - but I can also easily see that being annoyingly sexualised. That's not what I'm going for; personally I find sexy anime catgirls creepy, so I'd rather write a character who scratches herself and says she hates having baths or something. If you're familiar with the (also in my opinion creepy) ahegao thing though (is anyone not?), it's hard not to draw parallels between her PANTING DOGGY tongue lolling out and that. Hmm.

There's also the fact that since she's Savitr's apprentice, Collie would call him 'master', and I can easily imagine certain types of strongly politicised people taking issue with any female character which isn't a Strong Independent Woman Who Don't Need No Man, complaining about the power dynamics etc, even though he's irritated by it if anything and she doesn't behave in a remotely submissive way (as you can see from that scene). Still, I suppose I'm paranoid about this kind of thing because of how much politically-driven criticism I see of character depictions... and I have mental issues which exaggerate the perceived likelihood of (and sensitivity to) negative outcomes.



I still don't have a title for this game, but I haven't really given it any thought all week. I like Overture, suggested in a comment, as it means essentially the same thing as Prelude but seems superficially similar to Undertale, which this game has some parallels to (especially if Deltarune was planned to some degree before Undertale was released, much as Divine Dreams has been planned to some degree before I'll be releasing this, though I don't know if there are any connections between Undertale and Deltarune). Undertale might be a good comparison, as it (as far as I know; I still haven't actually played it) stands alone rather than necessitating a sequel, which is what I'm planning to do with this. Would it have worked as well if it were called "Deltarune: Undertale" or "Undertale: A Deltarune Story"?

But I'm far from decided. I still need to finalise a lot of plot details, too, though I feel I've got a backbone I'm quite pleased with. Perhaps I'll focus next week on further planning.

I haven't done any more marketing research either, since I've been busy making stuff. I need to get comfortable doing both simultaneously, though I'm still at the point where research is far more draining, so I avoid it if I want to actually get anything done.

Ideally I should be able to get to a point where I can make a Steam page and start posting publicly about the game in about a month, or less; maybe I'll aim for the end of July for that? Much of the game is already built, after all, so it shouldn't take too long. It'll be a while longer before I'm actually finished, but recent research suggested that you should spend months marketing, not just the final couple of weeks before release!





I've been posting about the process behind the development of these characters on ∞ my Patreon ∞ over the course of the week. It's nice to have something to post and somewhere to post it, though I also need to make these things public to promote the game, of course.

Patreon's tricky though because posting there never produces any growth. People who are already fans will see the posts there, but I've yet to get a new patron all week, and don't know if there's any chance of that count increasing until I actually release something. As I type this, it's at 49 patrons donating a total of $259 per month, which is about £210, ~20% of what I'd need for basic living costs. I appreciate it a lot and am incredibly grateful that people like my work enough to help me keep making it, and it's way better than some of the other Patreon users that I posted about recently, but it's still sadly a long way off actual sustainability. But it's a promising start!

I do feel though that I need to actually prove I'm worth supporting on Patreon by actually releasing something, which is why I like the thought of working on this shorter thing that I can conceivably finish by the end of the year! I'm also trying to make it worth supporting me by posting about the development process on there, since it's the best thing I could think to do, but I'm still figuring it all out.

And I still need to sort out some Discord stuff!!

26 COMMENTS

Tama_Yoshi82~4Y
Nice models, I like their energy.

I'm assuming that it's because the animations aren't complete, like you said, but it's weird Savitr never looks at Collie (Collie does look at Savitr, though).

I'm not sure how I feel about Collie being "accidentally" sexual, or something. I might need to mull this over more, but my current "take" on this is that people who express their sexuality (even as awkward "oh, this sounded too pervy" quips) do this for a personal *reason*, and sometimes for a social purpose. Here, I don't think Collie has any reason to be "awkward" (she doesn't come off that way, maybe I'm wrong) or "horny" (unless she's literally "into" Savitr; she rather mostly comes off as a gigantic fangirl). Her innuendos might feel out-of-the-blue and nonsensical if she's neither of those things.

If I can overanalyze:

"I built an entire shrine over you. ...Wait pretend I never said that."
Honestly, Collie reminds me of Russell from Up; not very self-aware, but very driven and passionate. Maybe I'm just wrong and this isn't what you want to convey. My main issue IF she is Russell-like, is that she wouldn't say "Wait, never mind (awkward)" Instead, the conversation would go more like:
"I built an entire shrine over you."
"...uh"
"I got tons of drawings of you. I've documented all of your adventures, like that time you got in trouble for punching a servant." (hint: this is exposition)
"...but I regret that."

"I literally peed myself when I found out YOU were going to be my master."
Omg I find scatological humor SO difficult to make pass. It might be a personal aversion, although I doubt it's limited to me. I think the intensity of that emotion can be reframed in several ways:
"I got SO excited when I found YOU were going to be my master! I ran around the halls screaming! And then I tripped and fell down the stairs and got head trauma and was bedded in hospital for TWO WEEKS!!! :D"
"...Yes, I... heard that happened."

"Maybe you can let me handle yours?! Wait, never mind."
Again, I'd use the Russelly lack of self-awareness attitude here. Not sure if this is what you want to convey here. It'd give something like:
"Maybe you can let me handle yours?!"
"Handle my what...?"
"Resonar! Cut those baddies down! Swoosh!"
"Ah, my Resonar, yes, of course."
"Omg did you think I was being pervy?!"
(awkward) "Well... uh..."
(If Collie admits to the innuendo, it's less easy to put Savitr on the spot for it)

ALSO, I literally take no issue in Collie having a master-pupil relationship with Savitr. She's fangirling, not self-deprecatingly submitting herself. The dynamic doesn't "erase" her personality; she even takes up more space despite being the pupil!
4
Tobias 1115~4Y
Huh? Savitr spends most of the time looking at Collie in that scene? Or do his eyes read as looking elsewhere to you?

I've been thinking about this all day since reading these comments earlier, since it's... embarrassing, or some word like that, to present things I find funny and appealing and hear that other people don't exactly share that opinion. I mean it's not like there are a ton of comments here all saying that, but just hearing one person saying that makes me assume 'everyone' feels that way and I've shown how maladjusted I am or something.

I personally find sexual humour funny for a couple of reasons: it's all over the place in the (British) humour that I watch - it's the basis of the vast majority of the jokes - and actual sex has been so detached from my real life experience, and I was so prudish about it growing up, that the tension-breaking aspects of humour are particularly effective for me. I've noticed that Americans in particular tend to be more likely to find sexual humour distasteful though? Or maybe that's an inaccurate generalisation, and it's more certain types of people who feel that way. It's easy to imagine the sorts of people who'd proudly call themselves feminists would balk at anything that even came close to women's sexual pain that's always been talked about in those circles... but that's just me trying to figure out why people feel the way they do, and it might be inaccurate too.

In the UK at least, it seems people being sexual in their humour is the norm rather than a sign of any issues; if anything, sexual repression would be a sign of those.

Do you think that young women who are huge fans of, say, sexy male singers never feel sexually about that? What about all the tropes about fanfics essentially being self-insert erotica? Women lusting over older men isn't rare at all.

That's the angle that I was going with here. Someone who's overly excited about their 'celebrity crush', so much that she lets things slip out but then she corrects it because that stuff's normally kept private.

Interesting that you describe the pee thing as scatological; I didn't think of it that way, though I can see how if you did then it'd come across the same as the crass fart jokes which I'm absolutely not a fan of. Here, I was seeing it as something to stress the dog element - I linked to a thing which talks about dogs peeing when they're excited - plus I like the thought of triggering disgust more than sex appeal to contrast with how fey and pure typical anime catgirls (or female characters in general, really) might be portrayed. Plus it's just inappropriate for her to mention, so I suppose that also works with the inappropriate/taboo aspect of humour for me.

I feel like that's something I'd rather remove entirely though if it'd be seen as on the same level as fart jokes.

A lot of this is just personal preference, of course; I find what I've written way funnier than your suggestions, though you presumably prefer yours because we're writing from what feels right to us.

Out of curiousity, do you find this series of clips funny at all? Maybe it's just bewildering out of context, but it's a glimpse into a programme I'd say is fairly common for British humour: [LINK]
3
Tama_Yoshi82~4Y
The eyes register as looking, at best, at her hair, not into her eyes; this is what's weird to me!

Okay. I guess I'll have to elaborate on what my preferences are, because this is pretty subjective, and I'd also have to mull over the specifics here. I have many different thoughts on this.

I've said that I write as a hobby. My FAVORITE part is dialogue, especially in the realm of character development. I like real and surreal dialogue, but I do not like unreal dialogue. For instance, I have a VERY hard time appreciating a lot of anime because very often the humor relies on X character being woefully oblivious for comedic purposes, and it just strikes me as alienating since no normal person would behave this way. This is probably not going to resonate, but Gintama is a very popular anime (apparently, according to myanimelist) yet I never got into it because its humor was this very specific brand of A) butt/crotch jokes, B) oblivious characters, and C) characters pointing out other characters' obliviousness, or "breaking" the illusion of the joke. (It also has puns and references that are incomprehensible outside of japanese culture, but that's another thing entirely)

My issue is not merely that it's not funny (I suppose I could find it funny in certain circumstances). My main gripe (especially with Gintama) is that it tends to happen in situations where I would expect to be immersed in character relationships and meaningful exposition. Other times, it just feels like a "tone" problem (being silly when conveying serious themes). There is a specific Gintama arc that got pretty serious, and I loved it! There's a silly episode that focuses almost entirely on an ultraman joke, and I loved it! Most other stuff? Did not do it for me.

Considering this, I like MARDEK, and I liked the humor in it. Why? Because it was generally compartmentalized; most jokes were relegated to NPCs, item descriptions, furniture description, and less exposition-interrupting circumstances (like the party-dialogue between Mardek and Elwyen, because Elwyen was basically a joke character--which did not prevent her from having her surprising moments at other important plot points).

Do I find the style of humor in your link funny? The humor style doesn't strike me as laugh-out-loud funny (although very little does that to me anymore); but I'd say I find it okay and appropriate humor, which I can get behind.

I think a big difference between the humor in that clip and your dialogue example is that the clip humor is a socialized style of humor, which is the kind of humor I've learned to inject in my dialogue, when I write. I perceive that a lot of humor is not derived from raw jokes and punchlines, but rather, from social interactions which cause and release awkwardness IN A SOCIAL FUNCTION. I have a very good example that happened when one of my colleagues made a joke.

The joke was basically irony at making fun of how scatological humor is childish, and he'd ramp it to an absurd degree so as to make obvious he was being ironic, basically shouting:
"PEE PEE" and then laughing in a ridiculous manner,
"POO POO" and then laughing again.
Then, an awkward silence ensued.
And I broke the silence saying "Y'know, scatological humor is so awkward that even being ironic about it might kinda not work so well."
And we laughed at THAT, because my comment was well timed PLUS it released the awkwardness caused by A) nobody laughing at his joke, and B) him making a weirdly scatological joke. THAT is what I mean when I say that I like playing the social function of humor; my comment wasn't merely a joke, but a jab at how my friend had failed at making a good joke (while also "giving back" to him the social status he'd compromised, by acknowledging his intention and why it failed).

Do I think scatological humor is always bad? ...Well, as you can probably tell, I only like when it's only sufficiently meta-ironic. Sexual humor is different; I don't mind it nearly as much, BUT notice that the sexual humor in the clip you sent also generally happens within a social context of tension/release, and each overtly sexual comment is non-ambiguously "a joke." THIS is the main difference with your dialogue: Collie is NOT making a joke, she IS the joke. Therefore, as an empathetic player (I kid myself), I feel awkward for HER, I am not laughing WITH her, and since there is no comeback from Savitr to "save" her socially, she remains awkward, and I cringe sympathetically.

So why is my "Russell" take, to me, better? I think, in part, it's because the "Russell" take doesn't put nearly as much social burden on Collie, and in fact puts actual burden on Savitr as well (Collie is talking too much, yet it's Savitr that's uncomfortable); reading the emotional state of the characters, I don't feel "awkward" for Collie, because she does not feel awkward. If a character feels awkward and nobody is one-upping them, that is uncomfortable to me (unless they're, say, played as an explicitly miserable butt-of-the-joke type... but nothing has made me want to mock Collie yet, so this doesn't feel right). If a character makes their awkwardness known and another mocks them, I register the one mocking them as being mean, generally. Putting Savitr on the spot isn't really funnier to me, but it is a lot more interesting, for expositional purposes (it pushes him in an unusual spot, and I expect to discover more from him in this situation).

I recall Negative Man from Mother 3, a secret enemy encounter whose entire point was that he couldn't attack because he was too depressed; was just floundering and crying the whole time as you attacked them. This is absurd, awkward misery, and I feel sympathy for the character ("Aww, he's sad as I beat the heck out of him! This is so bad!"), but I also "get" that I am meant to feel this way, because they're literally a non-character meant to look miserable. If, for instance, Collie was written in a way that people doubled-down on making her awkward or miserable, in ways that were clearly communicated to the reader as absurd or over-the-top, then that kind of joke would make more sense to me; haha! I might think, it is okay to laugh at this awkward situation because it's intentionally absurd, not an actual relatable instance of cringe that a normal person could realistically say or do! Instead, I find myself going "Hmm, is this communicating that she is awkward and has trouble expressing herself in normal social circumstances, or is this absurdly awkward and okay to laugh at? Prior lines appeared to be grounded, but these lines appear to be slightly less grounded. It is unclear whether this is absurd or not. Some people in Collie's fangirling dispositions might actually build altars or be awkward about unintentional innuendos; this is not overwhelmingly absurd, but it is awkward and I would not like to be in that position myself."

In one of my stories, I have a very in-your-face guy hanging with a very meek, introverted girl, and the guy keeps steamrolling her in a way that makes her awkward; she tries to point it out, but he's too self-centered to realize what he's doing (and she too meek to say no), so things just keep getting worse. Initially, I thought I would write the scene in a "funny" way, but it definitely came off a lot more "uncomfortable." Since I liked the characterization and felt the personality of the characters were conveyed well enough (and there's something oddly amusing about the main character being a woefully ignorant jerk, in a "That is SO him!" kind of way), I'm currently choosing the keep it as it is.

This is probably the most in-depth emotional analysis I can do on my "take" of this. I hope it makes sense. I'm not 100% sure it's internally consistent with my own emotional instincts, but it feels "good enough."

...

Humor aside, there's obviously the notion that you're conveying characterization to the player. I think it primarily felt to me like the humor was "at odds" with what I perceived was your "intended" characterization of Collie, not as an awkward and self-aware character, but as a bubbly carefree one (what I think when you bring up the dog-girl archetype). That was my second issue! If she was meant to be awkward and self-aware, then I have less of an issue with that dialogue example.

That's also why I mentioned changing the dialogue a bit (using Collie's knowledge of Savitr) could reveal intimate details which Savitr would rather not have revealed; maybe even digging into his "proud master" image and... I don't know. I'm looking too far into this at this point!

If you're interested in my specific "style", I can search through what I've written and send you examples I find personally pretty good.
2
Tobias 1115~4Y
That's certainly a thorough and very interesting analysis! You pointed out some things I hadn't considered.

I suppose I find Collie's characterisation here appealing as I have severe social anxiety; I'm really attuned to embarrassment and awkwardness because of that, but I suppose having a character who does 'say the wrong thing' - one of my biggest fears - but isn't tormented by it is maybe a kind of personal tension breaking or something? Seeing someone say things I'd cringe for years over, but who corrects herself and then just moves on (only to repeat the 'mistake' soon after anyway) is almost cathartic, or something? Or at least it's funny in its perceived absurdity. Something like that.

So I don't seen Collie as cringeworthy; I quite like how she says things that could be seen in that way, but is self-aware enough to feel a bit embarrassed by them and then put them behind her. Rather than privately beating herself up about them afterwards.

It's also interesting thinking about what an anthropomorphised (in terms of character traits, not appearance) dog would mean to different people. Some people might stress pure loyalty and sweetness, while here I've gone with 'obsessive adoration' and a lack of inhibitions (to some degree). And of course it's combined with the obsessive (lusty) fangirl trope because there are a lot of similarities there.

I'm not a fan of unrealistic exchanges either - I mentioned Octopath Traveler, as I've been noticing them a lot in that and it bothers me - but I also think that comical characters are often comical because their behaviour clashes so much with what socialised people in the real world act like. One of the motifs I'm using is that of contrast; Savitr has both 'light' and 'dark' aspects to him, but as a pair, he's internally conflicted and serious while she's just silly, like the overall tone of the game itself (seen in MARDEK too). I feel they represent the overall experience well in that regard, and it means that any rare scenes of levity with him or gravity with her will feel particularly special. (I do have plans about why she behaves this way, but that'd be embedded in a late-game conversation for more impact.)

I'm definitely taking to heart what you've said here, and I'm still trying to figure these characters out. I do wonder though whether someone with clownish traits would add wide appeal, or whether most people would see her as cringy; I'll be listening to what people say to get a feel for that.
2
Tama_Yoshi82~4Y
I think that attitude towards "saying awkward things" and "not being tormented by it" is probably our main difference here!

Interestingly, I find my Russell take to make her LESS tormented by the things she's saying (except for the peeing part, which I'm averse to more because it's scatological). My reasoning is this: if she doesn't feel tormented by things she says, then she won't even need to socially correct herself immediately afterwards. Instead, she'd be more likely to either A) double down or B) change topic.

=> "I BUILT AN ALTAR OF YOU... Wait, did I say that?!
=> "I BUILT AN ALTAR OF YOU. IT'S AMAZING I'LL SHOW YOU WHEN WE GET BACK HOME." "Uh... Is that a thing you do, build altars of people...?" (note: this acknowledges this is awkward, but it's not Collie doing the acknowledgement) "Please please please please please???" (double down)

The distinction I make, I think, is that it's entirely possible for the character to say absurd, horribly awkward things, yet doesn't even register it as awkward; they are oblivious to their social predicaments (or, in certain cases, consciously refuse to give them credit for pro-social reasons. That is, they know what they're saying will be seen as strange as others, but don't think what they're saying "deserves" to be seen as strange, so they don't mind saying over-the-top things. It doesn't have to be assertiveness, either; it can just be joky or meta-commentary. That'd be too clever for Collie I reckon, but I like writing that kind of character too; characters that are "so aware" of their social situation that they intentionally act unconventional, without being "self aware").

I think this vid gives examples of some of what I've been saying: [LINK]
2
Ampersand68~4Y
Wow, those character designs are really great! Collie especially looks really cute. Seeing the resonars in 3d also helped me get on board with the idea, and I like the concept of crafting them and switching them around between the party, as well as the potential for interplay with dual resonars. As for dealing with the power balance of the party, maybe you could give Savitr powerful defensive abilities which would need to be used often, essentially making his role the "tank" of the party (and fitting with his role as an angelic role-model, it could be called something like "Seraphic Intercession" where he takes damage instead of the intended target). Having a relatively low attack value could be interpreted as him "holding back", and if there's a dire plot event, he'll "let loose" and gain a large offensive bonus (or possibly do so if his party are struggling and low on health- like a sort of "berserk" mode that procs when others are critically low).

RE: the video- Gotta admit, while I do find that wacky tongue-sticking-out face hilarious, I'm not a fan of the dialogue being overly sexual, both because Savitr as an "angelic" figure feels like he ought to be desexualized and Collie wanting to get into his pants makes her characterization as a adoring fan seem less "pure" in a sense (not to mention the uncomfortable age difference, and the fact that Savitr's married). Though she's 20 and technically an adult, she definitely feels like she ought to give off a "overeager/goofy kid" vibe. Rather than flirting, going all "look what I can do!" resulting in exasperated sighs as she inevitably stumbles into trouble.
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I'm imagining Savitr as a general jack-of-all-trades - he's supposed to be particularly impressive, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be too weak in any areas - but he might suffer significant debuffs if Collie is defeated, so he might have to adopt a more tanky role - even if he can potentially do other stuff - to prevent that from happening. It's something I'll have to work out from testing though.

Collie here is essentially the same as she was when I came up with her five years ago for Taming Dreams, and she used sexual innuendo then because I found the inappropriateness of it funny. I tend to like this kind of humour anyway, and it's constant in the (British) humour that I tend to watch and enjoy. I don't see it so much in American stuff or really ever in video games though, so perhaps something more innocent would be more familiar and less uncomfortable to people.
2
Ampersand68~4Y
You know, that reference to cloyingly sexualized anime cat girls did remind me of a certain anime cat girl (and dog girl!). That pair probably influences my idea of what a dog girl acts like- loving, slightly clingy, but fiercely loyal and generally playful. Which I guess are already traits associated with dogs, now that I think about it... [LINK]
I think the two clips below may be relatable to you as well, and kind of demonstrate why I can't get the image of sexually obsessive groupie to gel. [LINK] [LINK]
There's this genuine feeling of admiration, gratitude, and ~love~ this girl expresses that warms the heart. It's the epitome of ~puppy love~, which doesn't preclude naughtiness (she's very physically affectionate), but isn't lowbrow. Like, I just can't picture an adorable puppydog going "I'd like to ride your resonator" and stuff.

EDIT: I don't think you should be too discouraged with putting sexual humor in- even if it doesn't necessarily fit with Collie, the game has an entire monastery worth of sexually repressed monks, after all!
3
purplerabbits148~4Y
I really love the idea of the resonars and how they look. I got the fiddle/violin vibes right away.

My brain is struggling to acknowledge that you know of ahegao, but then again it's become such a meme that The Fine Bros reacted to it so it kinda hit internet mainstream. x-x

Not sure how well this'll work but on the spell selection screen maybe have Collie move to prepare using the spell/music so that the time taken during selecting is time taken out of the animation for fully casting?

Though I do like the resonar shield imagery and it does open up interesting avenues for the story with the resonars being iconic like the Jedi lightsabers
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I've seen ahegao on Reddit and YouTube, though I don't know anything about it beyond the surface. I think it might have come up on my radar when... BelleDelphine, I think it is? The camgirl (or whatever she even is?) who sold her bathwater. That became memetic. And I think she did this face thing a lot, though I didn't know it wasn't specific to her until I must have read some comments or something.
1
purplerabbits148~4Y
Since I have friends that are deeep into anime, yeah some of the more pervy one are using it as a meme. Though it does take a certain kind of person to want to own and wear in public a jacket that's fully covered in Ahegao. I actually witnessed some people going around quite proud of their Ahegao jacket at the anime expo x-x
1
Tobias 1115~4Y
Wow, people actually do that? I thought that was the sort of thing restricted to exaggerated caricatures of anime fans! At least they probably have people who feel similarly who they can express themselves around, though, which seems like a nice thing.
0
Maniafig222~4Y
EGADS, IT'S COLLIE. I AM SHOCKED.

That was a lie. A col-lie!!

So, is Collie like a complete rookie at this point? If that's the case I'd wonder why she was sent on a mission that warranted sending their best and brightest, Savitr! Or has Collie already passed her training and she's just a greenhorn?

If the weapons are interchangeable between the two, then would Collie and Savitr's basic attacks be equally strong? Or not, since Savitr can attack twice with his two Resonars, I guess.

I'm actually curious why Collie is t, she doesn't seem like she's disagreeable! I think in TM she was RxJ instead of Rtj.

Could the guitar-axe not still work if Collie played the guitar with her left hand instead of the right? That way the animation would need to be much less complex. Or maybe she'd swing it only one arm, Slenck and the zombie warriors in MARDEK all swung their axes with one hand, and it's look kinda amusing if someone much scrawnier somehow did the same.

So, the video! Savitr's first line makes him seem a lot more uncertain than I expected from someone so experienced and grizzled and whatnot, it sounds more like something Deugan'd say!

Blight the Destroyer! Isn't that the name of the son of the protag from Belief? Interesting. That would also imply it wasn't the Elarna who did it, but someone else. I APPROVE.

The blade-handling line is appreciated as well, I'm always up for a plain and simple innuendo.

The only thing I'd change is the line about Collie wetting herself, that one doesn't effectively convey the dog idea so much as, well, someone wetting themself and being very excited about it. Not that I'm one to judge.

(Personally I've had worse in my own quests, things got scatological in every sense of the word. [LINK] )

I think the ahegao thing and the catgirl thing is quite different! In those situations the petite girl usually doesn't have much agency and are the object being lusted after, rather than Collie who does have agency and is lusting after Savitr.

And the master thing can easily be alleviated by first having Savitr call Collie his apprentice before Collie calls him her master. There could even be a joke about the double meaning of Collie's use of master relative to Savitr's unambiguous phrasing.

I wouldn't compare it too much with Undertale, Undertale took two years and some months to release after its Kickstarter launched.
4
Tobias 1115~4Y
This would be explained in the game of course, but basically the 'mission' is just Savitr going to look for a friend who's been away longer than expected. He doesn't expect any real danger, but sees it as a good opportunity to bring along a cherub for training. Something like that.

Collie's prone to anger, though it's not shown in this exchange, and she'd be fairly forthright with people she's not fawning over. I came up with words to summarise each of the characters' runes - I can't remember if I posted that or not? - and Collie's 't' word was 'Leader'. Her 'J' is 'Casual' (and her 'R' is 'Pragmatic'). It's more difficult to write traits very different to my own though, of course!

In regards to Savitr, I like the thought of him being more interesting than just a big smirking hero type. He's fairly reserved, and prone to guilt, but that motivates him to do something to try to help the external world (in the subconscious hope it might lighten his inner darkness, something like that). That'd definitely be easier for me to write! Some of his story is very resonant with my own experiences, though the aim wasn't to make this autobiographical or anything. It just turned out similar! At least in terms of types of emotions rather than specific events.

I'm glad you at least appreciate the innuendo! It doesn't seem to be everyone's cup of tea, understandably.

Your things are more scatological than this!! I think I'll just remove that though (I say, as if this is going in the game even though it's not), since I was never sure about it to begin with.

I'm getting the impression there's more specifics to ahegao than I thought! I just assumed it was the name of a facial expression, but is there more to it than that?
3
Ampersand68~4Y
RE: ahegao- "Ahe" refers to the noise one makes during sex. "Gao/Kao" is the Japanese word for "face". Collie's expression is more similar to "tehepero" ("teehee lick", i.e. XP emoji) [LINK] in my opinion.
1
Tobias 1115~4Y
Interesting; it's basically the Japanese equivalent of the term "O-face", then!

I think it's more similar to this! [LINK]
1
MontyCallay101~4Y
I actually find it really interesting how this one character can be seen so differently by just a handful of people!

The way I see it, it's less a problem with the delivery of the humour (the awkwardness is there, true, but the levity of the tone offsets it) than with the way the character of Collie is cast in general. One of the things that, for me, consistently seems to fall on the spectrum between somewhat strange and uncomfortable is the combination of sexual themes (innuendoes, blushing, obsessive fangirling) with doglike traits and behaviours that I'd consider to some extent to be infantilising (panting, submissiveness, neoteny). On its own, neither is all that bad - If the character was "just" an obsessive, somewhat perverted fangirl, say, or a "non-sexual" dog person, that would be fine - but the combination makes things at best cringy and at worst uncomfortable for me.

I've held back a bit on voicing my opinion on this, and I hope you don't find it demotivating! Maybe it just doesn't jive with my sense of humour, and that's fine!
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I can see how if you view those dog traits as infantalising, it'd definitely be uncomfortable! I hadn't been seeing it that way myself, more as just bonkers eccentricity, absurdity. Clownish rather than cute.

Ideally I want to avoid writing a character people are more put off by than drawn to, and I'm still in the figuring-these-characters-out stage, so I'm definitely paying attention to these comments. Better for me to feel uncomfortable about their reception now than to release the game widely and hear far more brutal things from the less sensitive-towards-me majority.
4
Natrythe2nd2~4Y
It's interesting; Savitr is supposed go be the main protagonist of the story, but Collie being a new warrior mentored by an older character she idolizes is very high on the traditional main character scale. It plays against expectations, especially since he's not going to die soon to give his student motivation to become stronger.
3
Verdusk21~4Y
If you actually play the dual resonars like a violin as shown, you'd be pushing your chin to a blade (since these things don't have a chin rest) where it sits next to your neck and the hilt stretching outwards, even if you grab it yourself with your left hand, sort of looks like you're offering your enemy to decapitate you... People risk harming themselves when fighting with dual swords and this is taking it to the next level. Although I guess you probably won't use spells in melee range anyway.

I think Savitr using resonars sort of make a good contrast with Dayvha too, since since it looks like Savitr would play more grave and melancholic tunes while Dayvha fiddles playfully with them.

I'm not sure how the pose transitioning works in the game, but would it be possible to just make the transition animation real quick (maybe ~0.5 s, just "zip"), and maybe the character will transition from the moment when you choose or hover your cursor/selection over the choice of using spells or attacks, that is, before choosing which spell or attack to use? As a bonus, when the player is thinking which one to use and hovering over the options, the character would reflect this also by switching the poses making it look like the character is also thinking what to do.
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
The resonars are more 'reminiscent of' violin playing, rather than an exact replication, but all that stuff can be handwaved away with "it's fantasy" anyway, right??

I do like the idea of the poses transitioning before you even select the skill to use... though I prefer just not having such pose switching at all because of all the extra effort involved for such a small gain. If I want to get the game out in a reasonable time, I should try to choose the least exhausting path if possible!
3
Nini4~4Y
The idea of resonators is neat. I imagine characters could have a primary resonator that's a bit larger than these twin ones, and some kind of off-hand smaller one to pair with it? It's definitely less on-the-nose than every character having a recognizable musical instrument would be.

You have likely addressed this elsewhere, but while you're reading I would appreciate if you could provide clarity. I've finished my playthrough of Mardek 3 since its release on Steam (my third finish of all games and 4th of Mardek 3 alone!), and was wondering if you investigated Steam achievements corresponding to the medals Jacquez hands out.

I've read most of your Divine Dreams blog posts, and after reading over the Mardek story document enclosed in the DLC package, I'm curious if you plan to recycle the general idea of the Governance de Magi? Thanks for reading, I've had quite the nostalgia trip playing this after nearly a decade, and it still holds up against most of the SNES RPGs I suffered through discontentedly. The puzzles, progression, side content and dungeon design are very lovingly executed. I also love your music.

As an aside, the biggest incentive I would have personally for contributing to the Patreon would be regular music updates. Cheers!
3
Tobias 1115~4Y
I'm glad to hear that MARDEK could bring something positive into your life!

The issue with Steam achievements is a technical one; there's no trivial way to get the old code communicating with the Steam API, so even if the game 'knows' what the player's done, it can't tell Steam. It's annoying, but very specific to this case of porting such an old (and poorly-coded, behind the scenes) game.

For Divine Dreams, I've reimagined the Governance de Magi as something called the Magisterium, and they're essentially the same, but different in all their details (they all have different names, for a start). They play a similar role, but (hopefully) deeper. At least one of them makes a (sort of cameo) appearance in the as-yet-unnamed standalone thing I'm currently making!

I actually spent yesterday composing a musical theme for Savitr, and I've been wondering whether anyone would even care if I posted it on Patreon, or whether I should just keep it to myself. If you'd get something out of it, then I could definitely post it on there, and I'd do the same with all the new music I composed too! I've already got an earlier version of Savitr's theme on there (the new one is a complete revision now that I know the character better).
4
Falcon64~4Y
I look forward to all your music updates and would definitely enjoy them being posted on Patreon! You mentioned before that you base character themes on the characters' "mottos", which would add another layer of appeal, as it would allow us to learn more about Savitr!
2
Tobias 1115~4Y
I've actually expanded the mottos into full lyrics now! Well, sort of; they're like the mottos in that they guide the melody but aren't actually sung. I've remade Savitr's theme to be based entirely around some of these 'lyrics' which explain his whole story and motivation!
3
LotBlind53~4Y
Speaking of Jedi, Knights of the Old Republic also had that kind of versatility in terms of who to give which weapon, armor or accessory when since often more than one character could use each of them. Some might be dual wielders, some with a single saber in hand. I believe I liked that kind of choice-making.
2
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