Alora Fane

I'd like to build the Discord I set up a while back into an actual community, but if you're interested in joining that, what would you want from it?

Depression's been the constant dark background of my mind for a long time now, though there are times when it flares up and gets in the way of everything. The past couple of weeks have been this way, as I at least hinted at in ∞ Saturday's dev post ∞.

I've already gone on about it so many times over the years though, and I feel like it's not something anyone really wants to hear about (yet again), so I thought it best to just keep it inside rather than posting here about it. If I'm hoping to make a living from games development, it seems I should at least try to pretend I'm a functional human being who can actually produce the things I talk about.

All the dark tangles - born of multiple traumas to the point where I often wonder if it's some form of PTSD - festered, though, for days, preventing me from really doing anything. Eventually I had to really force myself to at least make some minor progress on one of the things I've been putting off for a while: finishing setting up the Discord server I made a few weeks ago.

I didn't really do much towards that, but just talking with a couple of people there for a bit helped more than I expected it to!

I don't exactly have a support network, and I go days without talking to anyone, which really takes a toll on my already poor mental health. I end up avoiding a lot of things I should be doing - like promotion - because I feel I'm too mentally unwell and it'd be a bad idea to put myself out there in that state. Depression tends to make people isolate themselves anyway, ∞ because they have no energy, 'don't want to be a bother', etc, though it only makes things worse ∞.

So it is noticeable how much of a difference it makes when I do actually talk to someone. It makes me want to take more steps towards building a proper new community of my own, to add another place to the world where I and others can gain energy, but - as I've written about in past posts - I've been conflicted about the idea for a while.

Those of you who've followed me for years will know that I originally ran a site called Fig Hunter, though the community became really toxic and I felt I had to get away from it. I changed it into (an older incarnation of) Alora Fane, hoping a change of scenery might lead to a change in the feeling of the community, but that didn't quite work out. I built a couple of private, invite-only sites to hide away for a bit, but ultimately just ended up drifting away from the very idea of online communities for a long time.

My time running Fig Hunter left me with a lot of mental scars, which still haven't fully healed. I was scared to read comments for years, and I'm still deeply affected by negative ones because of all they bring back. I could never really use social media because I was scared of familiar old trolls following me.

I blame most of it on my own broken mind. I come from a broken home, I was never really raised properly, so I had a lot of strange beliefs and just wasn't the sort of person suited to managing other people. The rules I put in place on the site naturally brought out a horribly judgemental environment. It was my fault, and I take responsibility for that, though that makes it harder to bear than if it was something that some external villain inflicted on me. It's tough when the monster's in your own mind. You can't exactly escape.

A few people have mentioned Discord to me since I returned to games development a couple of years ago, though I've always been reluctant because of these scars. I wonder how people who've been in deeply abusive relationships feel about the thought of trying to date again. Maybe it's similar.

I did eventually set up the Discord a few weeks ago, but currently it only has about half a dozen invited members. I know I need to do more with it, but I've been avoiding it for weeks because of the mental scars, the depression, not wanting to drag people into my pit...

But as I said, I did go in there and talk for a bit, and that did help. I do feel bad about it at the same time, though, for inflicting my madness on others even a bit.

While getting my Psychology degree, I found that the interactions I feel most in my element in are one-on-one intimate exchanges about feelings and personal issues, which I feel isn't really what most people would go to an indie developer's discord for. I don't feel at ease with group discussions about politics, strategies, or comical banter, which I get the impression most people naturally do prefer, or at least gravitate to?

Still, I was thinking about this after waking up in the middle of the night (another annoying thing about depression), and I read ∞ this article ∞ about Twitch streamers who stream for months or years to 0 viewers, how disheartening that can be, and how so many people do that kind of thing because they're introverted and longing for connections.

It also talked about success stories, though, and how having a close-knit community - 'we're like a family' - can be such a wonderful thing.

I'd love to have something like that.

It's been interesting watching how people made life-long friends from their time on Fig Hunter. Some even met up in person, got into relationships. It seems to have been a formative thing in at least a few people's lives.

So it'd be really nice to build something that could be that for people, again. Just in a nicer way this time, less toxic.

Another reason I've been dragging my feet with it is because I'm unsure about how to actually achieve that. I'm worried that I might set it up, it might grow toxic, and then there'll be no return from that. Just another scar. I feel I have to get it right the first time, and when my only past experiences have been failures, it's hard to have confidence about the path forward.

I've been investigating it a bit, and I know that establishing things like appropriate rules, and trustworthy mods to enforce them, is crucial. It's hard to choose mods though because I don't know if anyone would help shape the community in a way that I'd be comfortable with. We all have our different biases that determine what we consider acceptable or not, and I feel that the way that my mind works isn't exactly in line with how the majority of young(ish) people I see online seem to think.

The rules I've written so far strongly urge towards compassion and curiosity, and encourage a mix of lighthearted silliness and deeper discussion. I really want to add a space for people to be genuine about their mental struggles and supportive of others', and I wouldn't tolerate any kind of bullying. Nothing too unusual there.

However, I don't like the thought of punishing or silencing 'wrongthink' like it seems many people do. I'd have a problem with someone directly hurting another with intolerant beliefs, but I'd be less opposed than many people to expressions of those beliefs in a general, abstract sense (I'd be mostly just curious about the underlying psychology).

I prefer the thought of a community which feels comfortable for everyone and their issues, not just certain politically acceptable groups.

Maybe that's a really naive hope, though, and maybe such a community could never exist. I'd like to think that by moving the discussion away from politics, disagreements about such things might not even come up, but so much seems so politicised these days that it's probably impossible to avoid.

There's also the conflict between wanting a place where I could personally belong, and a place which might not exactly be in line with my outlooks but which is more acceptable to a greater amount of people. Considering I'm hoping to eventually build up enough of a community to keep doing this games thing, prioritising the latter might be the better option.

I don't know. I know what I'd like the ideal end result to be, but I'm still trying to figure out how to get to that point, or if it's even possible.

If you've read this, would you be interested in joining a Discord server I'd set up? What would you want from it? Any specific suggestions for rooms, rules, etc? I'd be very curious to hear about your experiences in other discord servers; what you liked, what you didn't, what attracted you or drove you away.

(Sorry if I've said much of this in past posts; I don't remember.)

25 COMMENTS

mount201046~4Y

It actually seems like most people join Discords just as an expression of support! In a Discord I run of about 1500 people, only about 50 chat regularly. So I think you would have a similar situation. I think smaller communities are easier to manage, so there's that.
I think the general atmosphere of this site is rather positive. I think, if much of the same kind of people here are on the Discord, there shouldn't be much problem with toxicity. Do remember, through, that there may be edge cases... I've made a mistake once being too kind with someone who was rather, "edgy", which is the common term. Someone talking about self-harm, for example, may upset other users.
About politics, it really drags in much real-life hurt... It seems that politics is the troll's incitement strategy of choice. So be careful with the types of political discussion you allow, especially if you want a compassionate place for talking about your games... It's definitely not debate club, and there are probably better specialized Discords for politics.
I think the worst thing that can happen is you getting fed up and not talking on the server anymore. This will *definitely* make the server much more toxic. So if you don't like someone, do bring it up with them... don't worry about banning someone for "wrongthink" as *someone* will definitely accuse you of banning people for "wrongthink" anyway. I like this XKCD comic about free speech: [LINK]
It's ironic - to build a compassionate community you must ban without compassion those who threaten the compassion.

It actually seems like most people join Discords just as an expression of support! In a Discord I run of about 1500 people, only about 50 chat regularly. So I think you would have a similar situation. I think smaller communities are easier to manage, so there's that.
I think the general atmosphere of this site is rather positive. I think, if much of the same kind of people here are on the Discord, there shouldn't be much problem with toxicity. Do remember, through, that there may be edge cases... I've made a mistake once being too kind with someone who was rather, "edgy", which is the common term. Someone talking about self-harm, for example, may upset other users. 
About politics, it really drags in much real-life hurt... It seems that politics is the troll's incitement strategy of choice. So be careful with the types of political discussion you allow, especially if you want a compassionate place for talking about your games... It's definitely not debate club, and there are probably better specialized Discords for politics. 
I think the worst thing that can happen is you getting fed up and not talking on the server anymore. This will *definitely* make the server much more toxic. So if you don't like someone, do bring it up with them... don't worry about banning someone for "wrongthink" as *someone* will definitely accuse you of banning people for "wrongthink" anyway. I like this XKCD comic about free speech: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech_2x.png
It's ironic - to build a compassionate community you must ban without compassion those who threaten the compassion.

Tobias 1115~4Y

I wouldn't want a community where hundreds or even thousands of people were all chatting at once! Fig Hunter ended up with thousands of accounts in the end, but having more than about 10 people in the chatroom at a time was rare. So I was assuming only a minority of the members would actively chat at any given time, though I've never joined a Discord server so I don't know what's the norm. On Fig Hunter, there were a few people who were in the chat pretty much every day, but other people who only dropped in occasionally. I imagine that's common too. Like a bar with some Regulars and a constantly changing group of others (I say, as if I've ever been to a bar).

Ideally I don't want there to be any focus on politics at all, which is why I'm uncomfortable about the idea of explicitly political rules.

I very much dislike that idea of "banning without compassion" to maintain 'compassion', since to me that seems to go against the whole idea of compassion. Like people who push for 'diversity', but what they mean is people with different coloured skins who all have the same political beliefs. I'd rather try to understand what's making someone misbehave, to help them find a place to belong so then they wouldn't feel the need to act that way anymore, though it's tricky because people can't just drastically change their basic psychology.

At the end of the day though it'll just be a little indie dev community that might not attract more than a handful of people, so maybe I'm worrying too much about it because of these old scars.

Ideally I don't want there to be any focus on politics at all, which is why I'm uncomfortable about the idea of explicitly political rules.

I very much dislike that idea of "banning without compassion" to maintain 'compassion', since to me that seems to go against the whole idea of compassion. Like people who push for 'diversity', but what they mean is people with different coloured skins who all have the same political beliefs. I'd rather try to understand what's making someone misbehave, to help them find a place to belong so then they wouldn't feel the need to act that way anymore, though it's tricky because people can't just drastically change their basic psychology.

At the end of the day though it'll just be a little indie dev community that might not attract more than a handful of people, so maybe I'm worrying too much about it because of these old scars.

Verdusk21~4Y

While in your case I imagine only a few people would chat at once, there exist very large-scaled Discord servers (like the Mathematics server) where several dozens of people may chat at once.

This is not a problem, since a Discord server commonly has multiple chatrooms, for different topics. When a topic has too many people talking they just make multiple chatrooms for that same topic.

Arginoa1~4Y

Like mount2010 said, essentially there will be people but a few will converse here and there. It's always fun to engage in talks though. I personally think it's a good thing to open a Discord server -- I would love to hear more from you and interact with the current fanbase!

P.S: my first Alora Fane post!

phsc57~4Y

Very interesting post! finally something I can write a lot about.
Would I join your Discord server? I am unsure, because I am unsure if I am someone you would like or if I would be a good fit, but I do want to.
What would I want from it? Verification, so people cannot create 500 accounts and keep joining, also of course some criteria to pass the verification, the biggest problem is that if someone really wants to join they can just create an account here and try to act like someone new, however you do have access to the IPs of people I believe, so you could check that in case you do something like that, this will come to a question I will make later, I believe this is the most important thing to keep the filth of the internet out.

I have a few questions, what do you mean by toxic? people define that in very different ways, what are the criteria? I always have been curious about that, I know that you do not like those with negative chroleric traits (like Steele from MARDEK), but that is not really the kind of person who would play flash JRPGs or platformers online, I've observed many gaming communities, many being based on flash games and these people are very rare, it really makes me wonder, I do see how the rules might cause discussions, and how breaking them is the ultimate "haha I'm an internet troll let me get attention", but it does not go far from other communities I've seen, I personally do not have a problem with that, and it brings me some other questions, do you still have a problem with swearing? and in Discord, "do u have a problem w ppl who type like this?", because a thing that happens with Discord quite a lot is that people are on their phones and typing a fancy message takes much longer.
Another question is, what strange beliefs did you have? really makes me wonder as well, is there any place I can read about that?
And most importantly, do you still have a problem with trolls? by that I mean, do they still exist? do people come here and comment negative things just for the sake of making you sad or causing havoc? it's hard to know because comments have to be accepted and all, which I think is great.
Also, what do you mean with strategies when you say you dislike "politics, strategies, or comical banter"?

Now, to Discord communities, first is that, have you ever checked how the MARDEK community is these days? it's pretty small, but if you go on Steam and read the majority of things posted there, or the majority of the reviews, or you go read r/MARDEK, or join some related Discord server, so there is the MARDEK Unity Revival Project Discord server, that is a pretty long title, and well, the vast majority of the people there are very supportive and positive, which is why I have a hard time understanding how FigHunter was toxic, my experience with this community is very similar to my experience with other games, which I think you could take some influence from, but I will mention that later.
What about not making it the Alora Fane Discord server, what about making it Tobias Cornwall's server? that could make those who do not care about basically half of the stuff you write on this website less interested, and making those who are interested in it get into it.
Another possibility is actually kind of handpicking people, make some generic server, where you don't do much, but you can see what people are like, and maybe handpick them?
And about some of the rules! what about friendly bantering being allowed but within only a specific channel, which you can mute yourself, because at least the MARDEK Revival community thing has a lot of that, and now let me talk about other communities!
I was never a part of FigHunter because I was too young, and MARDEK is singleplayer, however there is a single game community I was part of, Plazma Burst 2, which is a very different game from MARDEK, because the game was mostly multiplayer (and had/has an amazing level editor that is what inspired me and made me realize I like programming and related things, and that is actually the intent of the creator!), and the game is pretty damn old but newer than MARDEK, and it does have a community of mostly kids, but the older people who are still around are very nice in general, but back then I remember the community being quite toxic, I think that after time, when there are fewer people for the trolls to focus on, or when they get older, it stops, mostly of the trolls are younger people in that community, but MARDEK is older and I don't really see a lot of very young people getting into MARDEK, but well, I myself liked some people from that community and made a Discord server of handpicked people, mostly those who are older and share interests with me, currently with around 20 people, and it pretty much is half of my social interaction now, it went past the game and a topic is actually mental developement and issues, I do not have as many problems with socialization as you have but this is what works for me, but actually, how many people actually comment on this website? does not seem to be a whole lot, those who are actually active and interested in other topics other than MARDEK, handpicking from comments itself can also work very well, and you can build a close-knit community doing that, about mods, a thing you can do is that depending on what it is, about the mods, the rules are the way to solve that, write clear and detailed rules, think of possibilities and everything, and try to only select those who agree with the rules of course, also, about Plazma Burst 2, it's rules, mostly the ones for the forums of the game, are very similar to the rules you had on FigHunter, about the rules you already mentioned, I think that it is very in line with my experience with people who know about your work and would be interested in joining your server, but this brings an interesting point, a lot of trolls probably have mental struggles and are often very insecure! this is kind of obvious I think, deep down it's mostly insecurity, why bother with others if you have a superiority complex? I think you probably have read the DSM-V but I find it very interesting how like people who fit NPD are deep down insecure the majority of the time, it's very interesting, but well, since you have to be supportive and it makes sense, these people would be out.
About punishing "wrongthink", I agree with you, I am very curious about that as well, and I also like to consider that their points might be valid, understand why and how they got into that, some people are very hard to talk to and achieve that though, I think the way you might handle it is very nice and well, at least know that you are not alone? I mean I'm not even part of the server.
But I think that your ideal community is not even that hard to achieve, and does not require much work or dedication, but then, I might be wrong, a lot of this is based on my experience only, and I don't think there is going to be data on this, just don't give up, failure shows your mistakes and next time you can just try not to commit them and go far.

I have a few questions, what do you mean by toxic? people define that in very different ways, what are the criteria? I always have been curious about that, I know that you do not like those with negative chroleric traits (like Steele from MARDEK), but that is not really the kind of person who would play flash JRPGs or platformers online, I've observed many gaming communities, many being based on flash games and these people are very rare, it really makes me wonder, I do see how the rules might cause discussions, and how breaking them is the ultimate "haha I'm an internet troll let me get attention", but it does not go far from other communities I've seen, I personally do not have a problem with that, and it brings me some other questions, do you still have a problem with swearing? and in Discord, "do u have a problem w ppl who type like this?", because a thing that happens with Discord quite a lot is that people are on their phones and typing a fancy message takes much longer.
Another question is, what strange beliefs did you have? really makes me wonder as well, is there any place I can read about that?
And most importantly, do you still have a problem with trolls? by that I mean, do they still exist? do people come here and comment negative things just for the sake of making you sad or causing havoc? it's hard to know because comments have to be accepted and all, which I think is great.
Also, what do you mean with strategies when you say you dislike "politics, strategies, or comical banter"?

Now, to Discord communities, first is that, have you ever checked how the MARDEK community is these days? it's pretty small, but if you go on Steam and read the majority of things posted there, or the majority of the reviews, or you go read r/MARDEK, or join some related Discord server, so there is the MARDEK Unity Revival Project Discord server, that is a pretty long title, and well, the vast majority of the people there are very supportive and positive, which is why I have a hard time understanding how FigHunter was toxic, my experience with this community is very similar to my experience with other games, which I think you could take some influence from, but I will mention that later.
What about not making it the Alora Fane Discord server, what about making it Tobias Cornwall's server? that could make those who do not care about basically half of the stuff you write on this website less interested, and making those who are interested in it get into it.
Another possibility is actually kind of handpicking people, make some generic server, where you don't do much, but you can see what people are like, and maybe handpick them? 
And about some of the rules! what about friendly bantering being allowed but within only a specific channel, which you can mute yourself, because at least the MARDEK Revival community thing has a lot of that, and now let me talk about other communities!
I was never a part of FigHunter because I was too young, and MARDEK is singleplayer, however there is a single game community I was part of, Plazma Burst 2, which is a very different game from MARDEK, because the game was mostly multiplayer (and had/has an amazing level editor that is what inspired me and made me realize I like programming and related things, and that is actually the intent of the creator!), and the game is pretty damn old but newer than MARDEK, and it does have a community of mostly kids, but the older people who are still around are very nice in general, but back then I remember the community being quite toxic, I think that after time, when there are fewer people for the trolls to focus on, or when they get older, it stops, mostly of the trolls are younger people in that community, but MARDEK is older and I don't really see a lot of very young people getting into MARDEK, but well, I myself liked some people from that community and made a Discord server of handpicked people, mostly those who are older and share interests with me, currently with around 20 people, and it pretty much is half of my social interaction now, it went past the game and a topic is actually mental developement and issues, I do not have as many problems with socialization as you have but this is what works for me, but actually, how many people actually comment on this website? does not seem to be a whole lot, those who are actually active and interested in other topics other than MARDEK, handpicking from comments itself can also work very well, and you can build a close-knit community doing that, about mods, a thing you can do is that depending on what it is, about the mods, the rules are the way to solve that, write clear and detailed rules, think of possibilities and everything, and try to only select those who agree with the rules of course, also, about Plazma Burst 2, it's rules, mostly the ones for the forums of the game, are very similar to the rules you had on FigHunter, about the rules you already mentioned, I think that it is very in line with my experience with people who know about your work and would be interested in joining your server, but this brings an interesting point, a lot of trolls probably have mental struggles and are often very insecure! this is kind of obvious I think, deep down it's mostly insecurity, why bother with others if you have a superiority complex? I think you probably have read the DSM-V but I find it very interesting how like people who fit NPD are deep down insecure the majority of the time, it's very interesting, but well, since you have to be supportive and it makes sense, these people would be out.
About punishing "wrongthink", I agree with you, I am very curious about that as well, and I also like to consider that their points might be valid, understand why and how they got into that, some people are very hard to talk to and achieve that though, I think the way you might handle it is very nice and well, at least know that you are not alone? I mean I'm not even part of the server.
But I think that your ideal community is not even that hard to achieve, and does not require much work or dedication, but then, I might be wrong, a lot of this is based on my experience only, and I don't think there is going to be data on this, just don't give up, failure shows your mistakes and next time you can just try not to commit them and go far.

Tobias 1115~4Y

Maybe you already know this, but the research-based consensus in academic Psychology is that people have five personality traits, the Big Five: extroversion, conscientiousness, neuroticism, openness, and agreeableness. You could say that every person has a value for each of these between 0 and 1, so for example someone extremely extroverted might have a 1 there, someone extremely introverted might have a 0, but most people would have something like 0.4 to 0.6.

One of the traits, agreeableness, essentially determines how likely people are to be friendly with others, to be considerate of their feelings. Low agreeableness seems to be more common than not among young males. The most likely to join a gaming community would be young males who are probably introverted and disagreeable. This doesn't necessarily take the form of constant bullying, but is more likely to lead to technical debates, disagreements, telling people that they're wrong, etc, which is an environment others with low agreeableness might enjoy, but someone like me - I'm towards the high end with agreeableness, and as such am conflict-averse - would find that toxic.

Outright trolls aren't likely to be common, I hope, especially since the games I'll be making won't be free like the old Flash games. Fig Hunter did have a lot of trolls though as it attracted a lot of people. There's at least one person here who comments occasionally who's probably a troll, though recently I've been not approving their comments. Just one troll can ruin things for everyone though.

I've outgrown my aversion towards superficial things like swearing and bad grammar.

By 'strange beliefs', I mean that I wouldn't immediately ban someone who said something that could be construed as 'racist' or 'misogynistic' or 'transphobic', if it wasn't directed at an individual with the intent to hurt them. This seems to clash with the consensus attitude I see, at least on Reddit. It's what I mean about disliking the idea of punishing people for 'wrongthink'.

I should have clarified 'strategies' by adding 'gameplay' in front of it. To be clear, I don't want to forbid people talking about video game strategies or bantering! I'm assuming those will make up most of the interactions. It's just I personally feel I can't contribute much to those discussions.

I didn't know there was an r/MARDEK (I don't particularly want to check it either though). It does seem that the majority of the comments are positive, which is great! But I've also heard some quite dark things about some members of the fan project(s?), such as them hoping to drive me to suicide so then I won't get in their way, though others have reached out to me to tell me those a minority of bad eggs who don't represent them.

It sounds like you're assuming I want to set up a MARDEK community, or something? MARDEK's a thing of the past, so I don't want that. I want to set up a place for the Alora Fane games I've yet to release, so then a community could build around them when I do eventually release them.

I'd guess that most trolls - at least those who aren't children who don't really understand what they're doing - have some kind of mental issue, and that's why I've always hoped to help with that, to give them a place to belong so then they might not be bothered so much by their demons anymore, though some things like NPD or psychopathy - which aren't even all that rare - aren't really possible to just clear away with kindness. So it's tricky; I don't want to kick people out if there's a chance to turn their dark to light instead, but sometimes that might not be possible. It's so sad to me to think that'd ever be the case though.

One of the traits, agreeableness, essentially determines how likely people are to be friendly with others, to be considerate of their feelings. Low agreeableness seems to be more common than not among young males. The most likely to join a gaming community would be young males who are probably introverted and disagreeable. This doesn't necessarily take the form of constant bullying, but is more likely to lead to technical debates, disagreements, telling people that they're wrong, etc, which is an environment others with low agreeableness might enjoy, but someone like me - I'm towards the high end with agreeableness, and as such am conflict-averse - would find that toxic.

Outright trolls aren't likely to be common, I hope, especially since the games I'll be making won't be free like the old Flash games. Fig Hunter did have a lot of trolls though as it attracted a lot of people. There's at least one person here who comments occasionally who's probably a troll, though recently I've been not approving their comments. Just one troll can ruin things for everyone though.

I've outgrown my aversion towards superficial things like swearing and bad grammar.

By 'strange beliefs', I mean that I wouldn't immediately ban someone who said something that could be construed as 'racist' or 'misogynistic' or 'transphobic', if it wasn't directed at an individual with the intent to hurt them. This seems to clash with the consensus attitude I see, at least on Reddit. It's what I mean about disliking the idea of punishing people for 'wrongthink'.

I should have clarified 'strategies' by adding 'gameplay' in front of it. To be clear, I don't want to /forbid/ people talking about video game strategies or bantering! I'm assuming those will make up most of the interactions. It's just I personally feel I can't contribute much to those discussions.

I didn't know there was an r/MARDEK (I don't particularly want to check it either though). It does seem that the majority of the comments are positive, which is great! But I've also heard some quite dark things about /some/ members of the fan project(s?), such as them hoping to drive me to suicide so then I won't get in their way, though others have reached out to me to tell me those a minority of bad eggs who don't represent them.

It sounds like you're assuming I want to set up a MARDEK community, or something? MARDEK's a thing of the past, so I don't want that. I want to set up a place for the Alora Fane games I've yet to release, so then a community could build around them when I do eventually release them.

I'd guess that most trolls - at least those who aren't children who don't really understand what they're doing - have some kind of mental issue, and that's why I've always hoped to help with that, to give them a place to belong so then they might not be bothered so much by their demons anymore, though some things like NPD or psychopathy - which aren't even all that rare - aren't really possible to just clear away with kindness. So it's tricky; I don't want to kick people out if there's a chance to turn their dark to light instead, but sometimes that might not be possible. It's so sad to me to think that'd ever be the case though.

phsc57~4Y

I do know about the Big 5, and I actually disagree with you a bit in what kind of person would be into your games, since you don't want a debate I will not make my points on this, I did write a reply and deleted it but I just want to ask some things to try to understand your view a bit better, where did you get that data from exactly? is it based on similar style of games to what you made/make or general games? do you know any research or article or anything that tries to make correlations betwen Bartle's taxonomy of players and the Big 5? have you ever heard of HEXACO? (very similar to the Big 5, but it has pretty much one additional concept to verify for, honesty/humility, which might be interesting since in FigHunter you had a rule about being honest), did you ever consider trying to gather data from those who use your website or would be up to joining your Discord server or those who bought your games?
About the games being paid, that adds a filter to it, but mostly to punish more toxic people, what about making so only those who link their Steam accounts with their Discord and own one of your games can join? I think at the current moment it wouldn't be the best way to proceed as of right now, because a lot of people did not buy MARDEK or Sindrel Song, but maybe when you release more games? it is a good filter to keep trolls out, and they are probably going to help you more by giving your money and quickly being banned than simply not doing anything I think, that is up to you anyway.
About that troll, a big tip I can give to you is create some system, not very complicated to make, where you flag their comments as troll comments, and every single comment by that person would be considered a troll comment as well, by that person I mean the account and the IP behind it, what happens is that, as you approve other comments or similar things, you also make so it appears for them that their comment is approved, but only for them, or you just delete it and just make so they don't come to you, but are not approved in their screen, this would make so they might not even realize you actually are not seeing what they are saying.
I think that "strange beliefs" are not so strange at all, a good example of a case where racism might not be something really "bad" is aesthetic preference, someone might believe someone from the opposite/same(if they are gay) is ugly if they are black or white or anything, it might even get to fetishes, racism also affects positives, so you might have someone who really likes people of a specific skin colour, most people wouldn't consider that racism, of course calling someone the N word just to offend them is something that is not very nice and I think banning that wouldn't be a problem, and that example I used about aesthetic preference is not really relevant to Discord communities about games/mental health, if you yourself have such a problem with banning people who do that, you can make so the mods do that for you.
About strategies and bantering, you could make specific channels for that, which you can keep muted.
May I mention that r/MARDEK has literally 10 posts, not very active, but that is where I got to know about the community I mention, I'm also not assuming that you want to make a MARDEK community! It's just that the people I see there aren't really people who would score low on agreeableness, this would be part of that argument I was going to make, and a lot of the people who are interested in your work come from MARDEK and your older games, and a lot of the people from that server is interested in your work, which is why I think it's relevant, and... I really have no idea of who would say they want you to die? I think that might have come out of irony or sarcasm, which is very common, in general, bantering in that community is very common, but the vast majority of people are very nice, that is what I'm trying to say.
And yeah, it is hard to change the mentality of not so nice people, but in my experience it is very rare for trolls to be old, I try to guess their age by checking for their knowledge about things they should know in correlation with their country, and the vast majority of trolls that I've seen are generally quite young, which can actually explain why there are few trolls now, those people are now older and probably grew out of it, there are however other types of trolls, which are harder to detect, Reddit is great to show that, but it almost always is about argumentation and discussion, if that itself is not very welcome in your server, then it is easy to keep the trolls out, I think that the most important aspect for people to feel good in your server is Openess, but ASPD and NPD correlate with lower openess as far as I know, but just because there is a correlation, it does not mean that all people should be simply ignored, as long as they follow the rules, they should be welcome, it is just unlikely that will happen.

I do know about the Big 5, and I actually disagree with you a bit in what kind of person would be into your games, since you don't want a debate I will not make my points on this, I did write a reply and deleted it but I just want to ask some things to try to understand your view a bit better, where did you get that data from exactly? is it based on similar style of games to what you made/make or general games? do you know any research or article or anything that tries to make correlations betwen Bartle's taxonomy of players and the Big 5? have you ever heard of HEXACO? (very similar to the Big 5, but it has pretty much one additional concept to verify for, honesty/humility, which might be interesting since in FigHunter you had a rule about being honest), did you ever consider trying to gather data from those who use your website or would be up to joining your Discord server or those who bought your games? 
About the games being paid, that adds a filter to it, but mostly to punish more toxic people, what about making so only those who link their Steam accounts with their Discord and own one of your games can join? I think at the current moment it wouldn't be the best way to proceed as of right now, because a lot of people did not buy MARDEK or Sindrel Song, but maybe when you release more games? it is a good filter to keep trolls out, and they are probably going to help you more by giving your money and quickly being banned than simply not doing anything I think, that is up to you anyway.
About that troll, a big tip I can give to you is create some system, not very complicated to make, where you flag their comments as troll comments, and every single comment by that person would be considered a troll comment as well, by that person I mean the account and the IP behind it, what happens is that, as you approve other comments or similar things, you also make so it appears for them that their comment is approved, but only for them, or you just delete it and just make so they don't come to you, but are not approved in their screen, this would make so they might not even realize you actually are not seeing what they are saying.
I think that "strange beliefs" are not so strange at all, a good example of a case where racism might not be something really "bad" is aesthetic preference, someone might believe someone from the opposite/same(if they are gay) is ugly if they are black or white or anything, it might even get to fetishes, racism also affects positives, so you might have someone who really likes people of a specific skin colour, most people wouldn't consider that racism, of course calling someone the N word just to offend them is something that is not very nice and I think banning that wouldn't be a problem, and that example I used about aesthetic preference is not really relevant to Discord communities about games/mental health, if you yourself have such a problem with banning people who do that, you can make so the mods do that for you.
About strategies and bantering, you could make specific channels for that, which you can keep muted.
May I mention that r/MARDEK has literally 10 posts, not very active, but that is where I got to know about the community I mention, I'm also not assuming that you want to make a MARDEK community! It's just that the people I see there aren't really people who would score low on agreeableness, this would be part of that argument I was going to make, and a lot of the people who are interested in your work come from MARDEK and your older games, and a lot of the people from that server is interested in your work, which is why I think it's relevant, and... I really have no idea of who would say they want you to die? I think that might have come out of irony or sarcasm, which is very common, in general, bantering in that community is very common, but the vast majority of people are very nice, that is what I'm trying to say.
And yeah, it is hard to change the mentality of not so nice people, but in my experience it is very rare for trolls to be old, I try to guess their age by checking for their knowledge about things they should know in correlation with their country, and the vast majority of trolls that I've seen are generally quite young, which can actually explain why there are few trolls now, those people are now older and probably grew out of it, there are however other types of trolls, which are harder to detect, Reddit is great to show that, but it almost always is about argumentation and discussion, if that itself is not very welcome in your server, then it is easy to keep the trolls out, I think that the most important aspect for people to feel good in your server is Openess, but ASPD and NPD correlate with lower openess as far as I know, but just because there is a correlation, it does not mean that all people should be simply ignored, as long as they follow the rules, they should be welcome, it is just unlikely that will happen.

Spectre35~4Y

>I prefer the thought of a community which feels comfortable for everyone and their issues, not just certain politically acceptable groups. Maybe that's a really naive hope, though, and maybe such a community could never exist.

Hehe, such groups are rare but they do exist. Check out r/politicalcompassmemes. You'll see people from all across the political spectrum making fun of each other including themselves without being overly toxic.
I am curently active on 4 games, and each of them have their own community, on Reddit, Discord or some other platforms. I think all of them have more than 100k players and only 1 of the community is toxic as hell and politics is not the reason for toxicity. In fact none of them discusses about politics at all.
So don't worry too much, just set up some ground rules and you are probably good to go.

Tobias 1115~4Y

I've seen r/politicalcompassmemes, at least when it appears in r/all, and that does seem like an interesting community dynamic.

Is there a reason why one of those communities is toxic, that you know of?

Spectre35~4Y

Yeah, r/politicalcompassmemes is a breath of fresh air when you're tired of all the negativity from politics.

Well, the community is toxic because of 2 main reasons. The first one being the top players are divided into 2 factions and they often argue on the community. Second reason is that the game company always make some questionable decisions and the bugs are everywhere. Many players just couldn't see the company in a positive way. But the remain royal because it is a very cheap and kinda fun gatcha game which is hard to find alternatives.

Tobias 1115~4Y

Which game is that? I wonder if I'm familiar with it and its subreddit, since that sounds like some I have seen.

Spectre35~4Y

Probably not the one you've seen, it is called Tower of Saviors. I don't think it is popular in Western countries and the main community is not on Reddit.

phsc57~4Y

Keep in mind r/politicalcompassmemes does have a lot of people who argue seriously, and it is basically all bantering, and a lot, a lot of trolls at times, and very biased people, it is just that the upvote/downvote feature of Reddit keeps that out of r/all, it is an interesting dynamic only at the top, but the lower levels aren't that cool.

Refurin24~4Y

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic as somebody who spent many, many years on Fig Hunter.

I'll say ahead of time that I almost certainly contributed to the seemingly toxic atmosphere of the place. But I personally never saw it that way for most of my time there, and it's one of the most memorable times of my life.

It was a very argumentative place, however at least the impression I got (which could be completely wrong) was that although everybody was arguing all the time, it wasn't aggressive and people were friendly to one another.

In a sense a lot of it was discussion about various things that a lot of people might not agree on and hearing alternative views. Things were usually fairly respectful despite the nature of the place, to me at least. I never felt attacked and I did not intend to attack others.

Looking back and now having more experience with these things from the outsider perspective and not from the insider perspective, I realise that it's not very enticing, and it sounds very strange.

Seeing people you don't know arguing about things you don't care about is quite annoying, but on the inside as a close-knit group of friends it seemed quite normal.

It wasn't until the very later end of Fig Hunter that I felt things switched from a group of people having fun arguing about things with one another to a fairly uncomfortable one, long after you had left.

A lot of people had stopped frequenting the place by this point, and what few people did remain were usually further driven away by the more unpleasant individuals (most of which had not been around long, either).

By the time the place was shut down it was a ghost town, the chat was almost exclusively people entering and leaving. It really bothered me that the place I had spent all of my teenage years up to that point in just faded away.

I deal with a lot of similar frustrations that I assume you did in the Discord server dedicated to the game I work on. I have stepped away from it many times as I just do not mesh with a lot of the people in it.

I unfortunately don't have any advice since the problems I experience in my own Discord have never gone away. At a certain point I had to accept that the community built around it was not meant to be a place for me to enjoy as much as it was for everyone else.

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic as somebody who spent many, many years on Fig Hunter.

I'll say ahead of time that I almost certainly contributed to the seemingly toxic atmosphere of the place. But I personally never saw it that way for most of my time there, and it's one of the most memorable times of my life.

It was a very argumentative place, however at least the impression I got (which could be completely wrong) was that although everybody was arguing all the time, it wasn't aggressive and people were friendly to one another.

In a sense a lot of it was discussion about various things that a lot of people might not agree on and hearing alternative views. Things were usually fairly respectful despite the nature of the place, to me at least. I never felt attacked and I did not intend to attack others.

Looking back and now having more experience with these things from the outsider perspective and not from the insider perspective, I realise that it's not very enticing, and it sounds very strange.

Seeing people you don't know arguing about things you don't care about is quite annoying, but on the inside as a close-knit group of friends it seemed quite normal.

It wasn't until the very later end of Fig Hunter that I felt things switched from a group of people having fun arguing about things with one another to a fairly uncomfortable one, long after you had left.

A lot of people had stopped frequenting the place by this point, and what few people did remain were usually further driven away by the more unpleasant individuals (most of which had not been around long, either).

By the time the place was shut down it was a ghost town, the chat was almost exclusively people entering and leaving. It really bothered me that the place I had spent all of my teenage years up to that point in just faded away.

I deal with a lot of similar frustrations that I assume you did in the Discord server dedicated to the game I work on. I have stepped away from it many times as I just do not mesh with a lot of the people in it.

I unfortunately don't have any advice since the problems I experience in my own Discord have never gone away. At a certain point I had to accept that the community built around it was not meant to be a place for me to enjoy as much as it was for everyone else.

Tobias 1115~4Y

There's an enormous difference between being one of the members, and being the admin in charge of it all. It's like the difference between a teacher and a class of children; each of those children might have somewhat anarchic but generally amicable friend groups within the class, but might just generally disregard the others. If there's ever some serious disruption, it'd be something they'd watch with curiosity or amusement from afar.

For the teacher, though, they're essentially on the receiving end of all the disruptions in some way or another, and they have to manage all of the class at once, while never being a part of them because they have a role to fill, a duty.

So when I think of the site's toxicity, mostly what I'm remembering are people who digged away into the site's code, who specifically targetted me with trolling because I was the one in charge, etc. Each one beat me down a bit further until it became unbearable, but I remember my reactions seeming like overreactions to people because all they were seeing was that one event.

If you're in an admin sort of role in that Discord for the game you work on, you'd get a better feel for what I mean by this than the average member. It's tough!

For the teacher, though, they're essentially on the receiving end of /all/ the disruptions in some way or another, and they have to manage all of the class at once, while never being a part of them because they have a role to fill, a duty.

So when I think of the site's toxicity, mostly what I'm remembering are people who digged away into the site's code, who specifically targetted me with trolling because I was the one in charge, etc. Each one beat me down a bit further until it became unbearable, but I remember my reactions seeming like overreactions to people because all they were seeing was that one event.

If you're in an admin sort of role in that Discord for the game you work on, you'd get a better feel for what I mean by this than the average member. It's tough!

Refurin24~4Y

I do remember a number of those people who specifically targeted you and most people really didn't like them because of it. Sadly there's not much that we could do about it other than tell them to leave or ignore them, since getting them banned didn't work either, they'd just make alts!

They're mostly what I mean when I say that the unpleasant people at the end of things drove everyone away. It was these people, who seemed to have a bizarre vendetta and refused to leave. They dragged everyone down for no reason and were very selfish.

There was one user who I had a decent relationship with (and I was collaborating on a game with them) until eventually I found that they were privately attacking you and trying to find ways to break the site and just I cut ties with them after that.

It always frustrated me that there would be people who found it okay to spend their time on Fig Hunter having fun while simultaneously attacking the person who created it. It's nonsense!

Falcon64~4Y

As long as the community is small, fostering a close-knit and tolerant atmosphere should not be problematic; but if you plan to market your works to a wider audience to make money, the community would become too big for that, I feel. Big communities associated with games have all sorts of people, with all sorts of outlooks. A strong moderation would be necessary to keep it in check, but I feel it might not be the kind of place you personally would feel at home in.

An option would be to have separate "closed" and "open" communities. For example, a separate server (or a section of the main server) open only to Patreon supporters. That could be a smaller, more tight-knit community, where you could have a channel for personal discussions, and which you could personally manage. Then, the management of the wider, open server could be delegated to your trusted moderators (who could bring to your attention things that you would be interested in).

I don't think it's in anyone's interest for your mental health to deteriorate by managing a community potentially more unruly and toxic than Fig Hunter (while Fig Hunter's atmosphere was not to your liking, it really was among the more subdued communities out there, in part due to the rules that instilled that same atmosphere). You definitely don't have to do it personally, though. Many creators are sort of "absent admins" in their communities, who show up only once in a blue moon. There is no need to force yourself to take on a responsibility that would be potentially harmful for you.

As for tolerating people regardless of bigoted views: that's an interesting idea. While I was initially against it (as such people generally bring undue toxicity), after thinking about it more, I decided that it would be an interesting experiment. If political topics manage to be avoided (which would definitely require moderation), perhaps other facets of such people could come to light, and one could begin to understand why they are bigoted in the first place... or something. Overall, I think it speaks to your idealism that you would want to try to understand such people rather than shut them out, and I think that's quite beautiful. Hard to say how it will go, but I think it's worth trying.

The specifics about server structure are not really all that important beyond the basics at the moment, I feel; if there is a need for a specific channel, it can be created when said need arises. The most important part at the moment would be selecting trusted moderators to manage the server alongside you; they could create channels as needed and, more importantly, keep the entire thing in check.

If the server manages to foster a supportive atmosphere, it would certainly be a very attractive place to me.

An option would be to have separate "closed" and "open" communities. For example, a separate server (or a section of the main server) open only to Patreon supporters. That could be a smaller, more tight-knit community, where you could have a channel for personal discussions, and which you could personally manage. Then, the management of the wider, open server could be delegated to your trusted moderators (who could bring to your attention things that you would be interested in).

I don't think it's in anyone's interest for your mental health to deteriorate by managing a community potentially more unruly and toxic than Fig Hunter (while Fig Hunter's atmosphere was not to your liking, it really was among the more subdued communities out there, in part due to the rules that instilled that same atmosphere). You definitely don't have to do it personally, though. Many creators are sort of "absent admins" in their communities, who show up only once in a blue moon. There is no need to force yourself to take on a responsibility that would be potentially harmful for you.

As for tolerating people regardless of bigoted views: that's an interesting idea. While I was initially against it (as such people generally bring undue toxicity), after thinking about it more, I decided that it would be an interesting experiment. If political topics manage to be avoided (which would definitely require moderation), perhaps other facets of such people could come to light, and one could begin to understand why they are bigoted in the first place... or something. Overall, I think it speaks to your idealism that you would want to try to understand such people rather than shut them out, and I think that's quite beautiful. Hard to say how it will go, but I think it's worth trying.

The specifics about server structure are not really all that important beyond the basics at the moment, I feel; if there is a need for a specific channel, it can be created when said need arises. The most important part at the moment would be selecting trusted moderators to manage the server alongside you; they could create channels as needed and, more importantly, keep the entire thing in check.

If the server manages to foster a supportive atmosphere, it would certainly be a very attractive place to me.

Tobias 1115~4Y

I'm definitely intending to only drop in occasionally; the task now is to set it up so then it's self-sustaining, and that does require moderators, and that requires getting more people to join first, and figuring out the atmosphere I want to cultivate before starting... Once the groundwork's finished, hopefully it should just run itself.

I'm planning to have a separate room (or whatever they're called) on the server for patrons, trusted members, myself, etc; that's one of the things that I need to do... eventually!

Maniafig222~4Y

I'm already part of the Discord, so you already know some of my answers to these questions. That won't stop me from commenting though!!

I think you've been doing a better job separating your personal life blogs and progress-related blogs since you started clearly delineating them on this site. Personally I try to keep up with both types of blog!

I'm glad to hear the conversation on Discord was helpful to some degree! We're always there to talk more should you feel like it, I'm sure the others also appreciate you dropping by like I do!

Having been on FH, AF and many of these smaller secretive communities, I understand why you're as reserved as you are. Even as a moderator the community was sometimes unbearable to me, and as the administrator you caught even more flak than any moderator would, and didn't have the option to just quit without pulling the plug on the site altogether.

Like others have mentioned, these servers usually have tons of lurkers, a Discord that has hundreds of users might have only a few dozen who actually participate, and it's rare that a conversation has more than a few participants. Having more than three people typing at once hardly ever happens.

For one-on-one talks, people generally only really use direct messaging, since you really can't have a one-on-one talk in a pubic server, anyone else could also join in on the conversation at any moment. I know how hard it can be to start messaging someone though, I've never had more than three people I regularly directly message with for a period of time!

I think that even here, you've built somewhat of a community. This is where most of the one-on-one conversations happen after all, and it's easier to elaborate in these comments than in Discord messages.

I still regularly talk with some people from FH and AF, about a dozen of us are still in our own little active Discord server. Sadly no relationships though, though I know someone who did meet their partner through FH/AF!

As for a community that feels comfortable to everyone, well, that's just impossible. A community can't be comfortable to me if people are allowed to be homophobic in it, to use an example where it would directly affect me. I do not want to engage with people about whether I should be allowed to exist, or whether I chose to be who I am, or whether maybe conversion therapy isn't as bad as people say or any of that.

One'd have to choose whether to have a place welcoming to people like that or people who are offended by that, one simply cannot be accommodating to both if the conversation pops up. And I really don't care whether any of that is directed at me personally or just vague and abstract musings on how the world in general is and ought to be, I won't continue to be in a server where I'd have to justify my existence to someone else or be made to justify it to myself.

Back on FH, when people like that came around, they'd usually wind up banned since they'd keep dragging people into these conversations and making others uncomfortable. FH had a lot of openly LGBT members precisely because the community made it a place where people could safely be open about it like that, it's one of the things which I think FH did surprisingly well, and it even helped me realize things about myself and come out and whatnot.

To use a different example where you would be a disenfranchised minority, I question whether a community would feel comfortable to you if there was a contingent of people in it who strongly feel mental illnesses aren't real and the mentally ill need to "get over themselves, stop whining and get a real job".

Perhaps talking about this once or twice might actually be interesting, to find out why they think that, but would it still feel worthwhile the tenth time? The hundredth? To keep seeing the same arguments and rationalizations and whatnot? You must've seen plenty of these arguments yourself, was any of that genuinely fun? Or was it just exhausting?

Many people flock to Discord servers like these to get away from pressures like that they experience at home, school or work, they see Discord servers as safe spaces to retreat to where they can feel relief to be away from judgements like those.

Maybe this won't be an issue in the first place, if the Discord is set up properly, but it'll inevitably be an issue if the server grows.

I know it'd just be much spiffier if we could all just get along and merrily talk it out, having to meet a lack of compassion with a lack of compassion in kind doesn't feel nice and the paradox of tolerance is called a paradox for a reason, but at some point people will force a line to be drawn in the sand, we both know that FH had a fair share of people who always 'skirted by the edges of the rules'.

Anyway, yes. I'd like to join your server, please send me an invitation so I may be in it!!

I could talk a bit about servers I stayed in and ones I left. The big server I stay in is one that I stay in exactly because it's basically a tightly moderated big old leftist progressive non-authoritarian hugbox and safe space with a rather strict set of rules for what is allowed and what is not. I'm quite sure it's not the sort of server you'd want to be in, but I find that even for a server that must seem so specific, people still very often have interesting and thoughtful discussions where they don't agree with each other.

People talk at length about their interpretations of games, movies and other media, about their themes, about what they like and do not like. People are very open about their personal weaknesses and struggles with mental illness, daily life, problems with friends and family and whatnot. It's a very welcoming server, for a specific group of people. I happen to be part of that group. That means their welcoming of me is not purely unconditional, but then the server we're trying to build also has conditions such as compassion and curiosity. It's only a question of who you want to keep in and who you want to keep out, whether by deliberate action or by deliberate inaction.

As far as I know it just started as a server for the game Night in the Woods, but it's evolved far beyond just being another game server. Unlike the other servers I've been in, which I didn't choose to stay in.

These other servers had much looser rules. One just had a singular rule about 'being nice'. Suddenly in the off-topic chat people were posting porn of characters, having arguments about whether they should be posting stuff like that, and having discussions on who was the rulebreaker when an argument broke out over the proper pronouns to use for a dice. Oops.

The server was also definitely just very much on the "thinky" side of things, whereas the NITW one is clearly on the "feely" side. This does make sense, NITW is a very narrative-driven "feely" game whether this other game is a heavily gameplay-focused roguelike "thinky" game.

Anyway, the reason I left was because there was one user who I just found absolutely obnoxious who was also a regular posted, alongside eventually getting bored of talking about nothing but optimal gameplay strategies and balance adjustments for mods where I'd inevitably get negative reactions on my arguments or suggestions.

Maybe add a rule for that, actually, that people aren't allowed to give mean-spirited or negative reactions to things posted on the server. It's intolerable, like getting a red orb on a post because someone disagrees with you. It reminded me of FH in the worst ways.

There was also a server I was in for like the last weekend, which related to MARDEK. I quickly left since the whole affair seemed quite obnoxious and like it was filled with teenagers. Kinda made me realize I'm getting too old for that shit, to put it crassly but succinctly. Really made me understand all those older members who I thought to be grumpy Squidwards back when I was a teenager on FH.

I'm already part of the Discord, so you already know some of my answers to these questions. That won't stop me from commenting though!!

I think you've been doing a better job separating your personal life blogs and progress-related blogs since you started clearly delineating them on this site. Personally I try to keep up with both types of blog!

I'm glad to hear the conversation on Discord was helpful to some degree! We're always there to talk more should you feel like it, I'm sure the others also appreciate you dropping by like I do!

Having been on FH, AF and many of these smaller secretive communities, I understand why you're as reserved as you are. Even as a moderator the community was sometimes unbearable to me, and as the administrator you caught even more flak than any moderator would, and didn't have the option to just quit without pulling the plug on the site altogether.

Like others have mentioned, these servers usually have tons of lurkers, a Discord that has hundreds of users might have only a few dozen who actually participate, and it's rare that a conversation has more than a few participants. Having more than three people typing at once hardly ever happens.

For one-on-one talks, people generally only really use direct messaging, since you really can't have a one-on-one talk in a pubic server, anyone else could also join in on the conversation at any moment. I know how hard it can be to start messaging someone though, I've never had more than three people I regularly directly message with for a period of time!

I think that even here, you've built somewhat of a community. This is where most of the one-on-one conversations happen after all, and it's easier to elaborate in these comments than in Discord messages.

I still regularly talk with some people from FH and AF, about a dozen of us are still in our own little active Discord server. Sadly no relationships though, though I know someone who did meet their partner through FH/AF!

As for a community that feels comfortable to everyone, well, that's just impossible. A community can't be comfortable to me if people are allowed to be homophobic in it, to use an example where it would directly affect me. I do not want to engage with people about whether I should be allowed to exist, or whether I chose to be who I am, or whether maybe conversion therapy isn't as bad as people say or any of that.

One'd have to choose whether to have a place welcoming to people like that or people who are offended by that, one simply cannot be accommodating to both if the conversation pops up. And I really don't care whether any of that is directed at me personally or just vague and abstract musings on how the world in general is and ought to be, I won't continue to be in a server where I'd have to justify my existence to someone else or be made to justify it to myself.

Back on FH, when people like that came around, they'd usually wind up banned since they'd keep dragging people into these conversations and making others uncomfortable. FH had a lot of openly LGBT members precisely because the community made it a place where people could safely be open about it like that, it's one of the things which I think FH did surprisingly well, and it even helped me realize things about myself and come out and whatnot.

To use a different example where you would be a disenfranchised minority, I question whether a community would feel comfortable to you if there was a contingent of people in it who strongly feel mental illnesses aren't real and the mentally ill need to "get over themselves, stop whining and get a real job".

Perhaps talking about this once or twice might actually be interesting, to find out why they think that, but would it still feel worthwhile the tenth time? The hundredth? To keep seeing the same arguments and rationalizations and whatnot? You must've seen plenty of these arguments yourself, was any of that genuinely fun? Or was it just exhausting?

Many people flock to Discord servers like these to get away from pressures like that they experience at home, school or work, they see Discord servers as safe spaces to retreat to where they can feel relief to be away from judgements like those.

Maybe this won't be an issue in the first place, if the Discord is set up properly, but it'll inevitably be an issue if the server grows.

I know it'd just be much spiffier if we could all just get along and merrily talk it out, having to meet a lack of compassion with a lack of compassion in kind doesn't feel nice and the paradox of tolerance is called a paradox for a reason, but at some point people will force a line to be drawn in the sand, we both know that FH had a fair share of people who always 'skirted by the edges of the rules'.

Anyway, yes. I'd like to join your server, please send me an invitation so I may be in it!!

I could talk a bit about servers I stayed in and ones I left. The big server I stay in is one that I stay in exactly because it's basically a tightly moderated big old leftist progressive non-authoritarian hugbox and safe space with a rather strict set of rules for what is allowed and what is not. I'm quite sure it's not the sort of server you'd want to be in, but I find that even for a server that must seem so specific, people still very often have interesting and thoughtful discussions where they don't agree with each other.

People talk at length about their interpretations of games, movies and other media, about their themes, about what they like and do not like. People are very open about their personal weaknesses and struggles with mental illness, daily life, problems with friends and family and whatnot. It's a very welcoming server, for a specific group of people. I happen to be part of that group. That means their welcoming of me is not purely unconditional, but then the server we're trying to build also has conditions such as compassion and curiosity. It's only a question of who you want to keep in and who you want to keep out, whether by deliberate action or by deliberate inaction.

As far as I know it just started as a server for the game Night in the Woods, but it's evolved far beyond just being another game server. Unlike the other servers I've been in, which I didn't choose to stay in.

These other servers had much looser rules. One just had a singular rule about 'being nice'. Suddenly in the off-topic chat people were posting porn of characters, having arguments about whether they should be posting stuff like that, and having discussions on who was the rulebreaker when an argument broke out over the proper pronouns to use for a dice. Oops.

The server was also definitely just very much on the "thinky" side of things, whereas the NITW one is clearly on the "feely" side. This does make sense, NITW is a very narrative-driven "feely" game whether this other game is a heavily gameplay-focused roguelike "thinky" game.

Anyway, the reason I left was because there was one user who I just found absolutely obnoxious who was also a regular posted, alongside eventually getting bored of talking about nothing but optimal gameplay strategies and balance adjustments for mods where I'd inevitably get negative reactions on my arguments or suggestions.

Maybe add a rule for that, actually, that people aren't allowed to give mean-spirited or negative reactions to things posted on the server. It's intolerable, like getting a red orb on a post because someone disagrees with you. It reminded me of FH in the worst ways.

There was also a server I was in for like the last weekend, which related to MARDEK. I quickly left since the whole affair seemed quite obnoxious and like it was filled with teenagers. Kinda made me realize I'm getting too old for that shit, to put it crassly but succinctly. Really made me understand all those older members who I thought to be grumpy Squidwards back when I was a teenager on FH.

Hellhound1~4Y

I'm somewhat active in two different Discord groups and both are gaming communities. One is an invite-only server, but the invite requirement isn't strict and only has around a hundred members; the other is an open server with thousands of users.

In the first server, political or social discussions doesn't come up often and most of topics like that are in a certain 'vent room'. But there was a surge of political posts during the height of the US riots.

I actually know little about it because I don't care about the US. It's absolutely not an exaggeration to say that the only reason I even knew about it was because of them; I rarely watch TV or check social media, and I don't know anyone who talks about it. It was on TV when I decided to watch it out of curiosity, but as I've said earlier, I have never seen a real-life person actually talk about it; which makes sense because nobody actually cares when our country isn't directly involved.

Most of the members there seem to be white left-leaning types from the US. I stick out like a sore thumb because: I don't live in a developed country, I'm not white and I'm not leftist progressive or whatever it is called. The third part never comes up anyway because I avoid political or social topics (even among more like-minded people). I mentioned developed countries because it seems like Westerners indulge in political arguments way more than us; I'm not even sure if this is true, but that is what I see.

The other server explicitly bans religious and political discussions. It seems to be upheld for the most part, but there's this one topic that they failed to catch for some reason. There was a discussion (actually more of a joke) about sexism. It's not something you want or need to know.

Banning talk like the one I mentioned is what you consider 'banning wrongthink', right? It was never 'directed at an individual with the intent to hurt them' but could be seen as sexist, and there was a clear anti-liberal message.

Trying to understanding the underlying psychology of, ahem, inconvenient beliefs is interesting. It's actually something that has been on my mind for a while now so I'm relieved to see you say something similar. That you'd rather "...understand what's making someone misbehave, to help them find a place to belong..." instead of rejecting them is admirable.

I get that Fig Hunter was rough, but you shouldn't worry about politics, wrongthink and the like. Politics is rarely a topic in the first server I mentioned and is even banned in the second server.

And yes, I'm definitely interested in joining your Discord server. I'm not even sure what I want. I was never much of a contributor in your old community.

In the first server, political or social discussions doesn't come up often and most of topics like that are in a certain 'vent room'. But there was a surge of political posts during the height of the US riots.

I actually know little about it because I don't care about the US. It's absolutely not an exaggeration to say that the only reason I even knew about it was because of them; I rarely watch TV or check social media, and I don't know anyone who talks about it. It was on TV when I decided to watch it out of curiosity, but as I've said earlier, I have never seen a real-life person actually talk about it; which makes sense because nobody actually cares when our country isn't directly involved.

Most of the members there seem to be white left-leaning types from the US. I stick out like a sore thumb because: I don't live in a developed country, I'm not white and I'm not leftist progressive or whatever it is called.  The third part never comes up anyway because I avoid political or social topics (even among more like-minded people). I mentioned developed countries because it seems like Westerners indulge in political arguments way more than us; I'm not even sure if this is true, but that is what I see.

The other server explicitly bans religious and political discussions. It seems to be upheld for the most part, but there's this one topic that they failed to catch for some reason. There was a discussion (actually more of a joke) about sexism. It's not something you want or need to know.

Banning talk like the one I mentioned is what you consider â€˜banning wrongthinkâ€™, right? It was never â€˜directed at an individual with the intent to hurt themâ€™ but could be seen as sexist, and there was a clear anti-liberal message.

Trying to understanding the underlying psychology of, ahem, inconvenient beliefs is interesting. It's actually something that has been on my mind for a while now so I'm relieved to see you say something similar. That you'd rather "...understand what's making someone misbehave, to help them find a place to belong..." instead of rejecting them is admirable.

I get that Fig Hunter was rough, but you shouldn't worry about politics, wrongthink and the like. Politics is rarely a topic in the first server I mentioned and is even banned in the second server.

And yes, I'm definitely interested in joining your Discord server. I'm not even sure what I want. I was never much of a contributor in your old community.

snipo1019~4Y

To jump a bit off of what Mania said, I think that for what you're looking for, a small, closely-knit community would be ideal, but as the server grows, maintaining that same feeling will get trickier and trickier. From my own experience helping moderate a discord server of just under 200 people, I've noticed that being inclusive can work really well - it gives you all kinds of interesting and new perspectives to interact with, which promotes interesting discussions. However, it also complicates things a bit, adding more things to keep track of, who said what in which channel, all the different requests and preferences people have, and so on. And that can get somewhat exhausting, even if you enjoy talking to them! And then, of course, there are people who will push the boundaries as much as possible to see what they can get away with.

I've been on multiple discords, for many different creative types, and they can be pretty hit or miss. I think the best ones are ones that start small and sort of fill a role over time. For example, there's this one server I'm on that I really like; it started out as this guy's personal server (he's a music composer/game developer, quite like yourself) that he used to showcase his various projects, and he still does that, but now it's become a sort of community of various freelance artists and developers who are trying to make their way in the field. The server rules are simplistic, and the server has a really wholesome vibe to it. The owner is super friendly and makes a point of welcoming each new member (and encouraging others to do the same). The other thing is, he's a very good listener. A week or two after I joined he personally messaged me asking me for feedback, if I liked the server. Getting a chance to be heard felt pretty great, even if I didn't have much to say other than "I like it".

So, to conclude, the compassion/curiosity theme seems like a great direction for your server, and is definitely a type of server I would enjoy immensely. I think the most important thing is to just set a good example and encourage people to be the best version of themselves, and ask for feedback. That can get you very far, and you're already doing most if not all of these things.

I believe I already emailed you asking for an invite several weeks ago, by the way, though I understand that as a less active member I would probably be waiting for a while!

I've been on multiple discords, for many different creative types, and they can be pretty hit or miss. I think the best ones are ones that start small and sort of fill a role over time. For example, there's this one server I'm on that I really like; it started out as this guy's personal server (he's a music composer/game developer, quite like yourself) that he used to showcase his various projects, and he still does that, but now it's become a sort of community of various freelance artists and developers who are trying to make their way in the field. The server rules are simplistic, and the server has a really wholesome vibe to it. The owner is super friendly and makes a point of welcoming each new member (and encouraging others to do the same). The other thing is, he's a very good listener. A week or two after I joined he personally messaged me asking me for feedback, if I liked the server. Getting a chance to be heard felt pretty great, even if I didn't have much to say other than "I like it".

So, to conclude, the compassion/curiosity theme seems like a great direction for your server, and is definitely a type of server I would enjoy immensely. I think the most important thing is to just set a good example and encourage people to be the best version of themselves, and ask for feedback. That can get you very far, and you're already doing most if not all of these things.

I believe I already emailed you asking for an invite several weeks ago, by the way, though I understand that as a less active member I would probably be waiting for a while!

Violet5~4Y

Most of my experience with discord from a moderation standpoint comes from what are almost certainly different, directionally, from what you've outlined- One's a general community server for a heavily politically-oriented webgame, and the other's a relatively small-scale role-play server, so pretty much all of the following deserves a grain of salt or five.

First off, some things related to comments others have made. As has been mentioned, it's likely that only a fraction of the members on the server would actually be active, *but* adjacent to this, only a fraction of the people who join will stay, especially after any buzz around the initial opening dies down. There's a trend of people joining and immediately leaving on most, if not all servers I've seen, whether it's due to first impressions not suiting their tastes, general anxiety, or other reasons.

As far as actual moderation goes, it's hard to give much commentary without knowing specifically what the rules are, but one thing that I've found drastically helps with maintaining a good atmosphere is to have a separate channel that your moderators can pull people into when there's anything that needs discussion- having a private space for that dialogue gives people a chance to clarify their intent or generally just resolve issues in a less adversarial environment than if moderation laid out warnings in the middle of a discussion. Regardless of anything else, an open, friendly relationship between moderation and the general userbase is critical. If overall trust is lost, *in either direction*, the atmosphere will eventually become toxic.

As far as comfort goes, to a large extent my opinions align with Mania. Inclusivity is good to a point, but when it includes viewpoints that are inherently exclusive, problems arise purely from their presence. Boiled down, not all debates are constructive or worth having. i.e. no one should have to justify their existence, identity, beliefs, etc. to someone who refuses to acknowledge or outright disdains them. I don't know if there's really a hard-and-fast line as to what is and isn't acceptable in that regard, but holding freedom of expression above everything else does create problems that one needs to be wary of.

I might have more to say later when more comes to mind, but I'll leave things for now by saying that I'd happily support there being a community where you can feel at ease. An environment like that is immensely valuable, and I wish you the best in aiming for it.

First off, some things related to comments others have made. As has been mentioned, it's likely that only a fraction of the members on the server would actually be active, *but* adjacent to this, only a fraction of the people who join will stay, especially after any buzz around the initial opening dies down. There's a trend of people joining and immediately leaving on most, if not all servers I've seen, whether it's due to first impressions not suiting their tastes, general anxiety, or other reasons.

As far as actual moderation goes, it's hard to give much commentary without knowing specifically what the rules are, but one thing that I've found drastically helps with maintaining a good atmosphere is to have a separate channel that your moderators can pull people into when there's anything that needs discussion- having a private space for that dialogue gives people a chance to clarify their intent or generally just resolve issues in a less adversarial environment than if moderation laid out warnings in the middle of a discussion. Regardless of anything else, an open, friendly relationship between moderation and the general userbase is critical. If overall trust is lost, *in either direction*, the atmosphere will eventually become toxic.

As far as comfort goes, to a large extent my opinions align with Mania. Inclusivity is good to a point, but when it includes viewpoints that are inherently exclusive, problems arise purely from their presence. Boiled down, not all debates are constructive or worth having. i.e. no one should have to justify their existence, identity, beliefs, etc. to someone who refuses to acknowledge or outright disdains them. I don't know if there's really a hard-and-fast line as to what is and isn't acceptable in that regard, but holding freedom of expression above everything else does create problems that one needs to be wary of.

I might have more to say later when more comes to mind, but I'll leave things for now by saying that I'd happily support there being a community where you can feel at ease. An environment like that is immensely valuable, and I wish you the best in aiming for it.

kasheeste2133~4Y

Where to start...
Firstly, it seems to me like you're combining several issues which are not necessarily related and ultimately seeking catharsis for what you deem the failings of your past. (your words) You're trying to rationalize your feelings, thoughts and most importantly your self image but constantly running into the issue that people aren't math problems. I could tell you that I've felt the same way; give some verbose speech with flashy quotes on the nature of epistemic loneliness but we both know it would be to no avail. Instead I'll offer you a musing regarding the concept of loneliness or rather abject solitude, an experience shared by thousands perhaps millions, yet each an every one is as alone as the next. I don't have the answers but if you're feeling down and just want someone to talk to I'm around.

Onward to cheerier topics... The real question I have of this whole post is what are you wanting out of this discord, particularly that can't be achieved here? The only answer can be a conversation but about what? The obvious answer would be the common factor among the folks that find their way onto that discord; yourself, Mardek, and Yet Unnamed Concept Game. Admittedly I wasn't around for the fig hunter days (made an account but was too preoccupied) but if you still have people hunting you down to troll after all these years then they have serious issues and you'd do well to ignore them. As for the fear of how to properly administrate its not actually that difficult; one day at a time. If you don't want to risk appearing the tyrant then the simplest way is to remain fluid and rely on diplomacy to find acceptable solutions while keeping in mind the ultimate purpose; allowing you a place to engage with your fans and other curious individuals. Ultimately, I feel as though the only way to get over these fears is simply to push on forward and see what happens.

He who leaves nothing to chance will do few things poorly, but he will do few things. - Lord Halifax

Where to start...
Firstly, it seems to me like you're combining several issues which are not necessarily related and ultimately seeking catharsis for what you deem the failings of your past. (your words) You're trying to rationalize your feelings, thoughts and most importantly your self image but constantly running into the issue that people aren't math problems. I could tell you that I've felt the same way; give some verbose speech with flashy quotes on the nature of epistemic loneliness but we both know it would be to no avail. Instead I'll offer you a musing regarding the concept of loneliness or rather abject solitude, an experience shared by thousands perhaps millions, yet each an every one is as alone as the next. I don't have the answers but if you're feeling down and just want someone to talk to I'm around. 
 
Onward to cheerier topics... The real question I have of this whole post is what are you wanting out of this discord, particularly that can't be achieved here? The only answer can be a conversation but about what? The obvious answer would be the common factor among the folks that find their way onto that discord; yourself, Mardek, and Yet Unnamed Concept Game. Admittedly I wasn't around for the fig hunter days (made an account but was too preoccupied) but if you still have people hunting you down to troll after all these years then they have serious issues and you'd do well to ignore them. As for the fear of how to properly administrate its not actually that difficult; one day at a time. If you don't want to risk appearing the tyrant then the simplest way is to remain fluid and rely on diplomacy to find acceptable solutions while keeping in mind the ultimate purpose; allowing you a place to engage with your fans and other curious individuals.  Ultimately, I feel as though the only way to get over these fears is simply to push on forward and see what happens.

He who leaves nothing to chance will do few things poorly, but he will do few things. - Lord Halifax

RedHalo30007~4Y

I'm mostly a lurker, but I've been looking here off and on since the early Mardek flash games on fighunter. (Deliverance was my favorite one though)

I'm a moderator on a few Discord servers (Advance Wars By Web, Wargroove, some emote servers), and imo the big thing is to pick good moderators to keep everything under control. And it can keep it from becoming toxic like the old Fig hunter forums.

I make a lot of Discord emotes, I could make some from the server once it's public. : )

Akail1~4Y

Whoops found this a little late I guess.

I used to be on what I think you're referring to as the older incarnation of Alora Fane, the site after Fig Hunter at least. Honestly it was my favorite design for a website. I drifted away after being engrossed in the community for quite a while, and then later needed some sort of online community again quite some time later, and turned to Discord servers. I found a really cool little server, but it finally blew apart after a long drifting slow demise after some very odd disagreements with other mods (I was a mod, and made a smaller server to kinda house the refugees of it). I used to be on a lot of political servers too, but they ended up being a bit too toxic (and prone to just exploding into five new servers at a moment's notice because they usually include elections).

My apologies to anyone who reads this for the rambling, but there is a lot to be said for discord servers as a way to connect to people. There are a few really important aspects to be careful of though. Private ones don't really have to worry about gates/member roles, but if you advertise it anywhere there is the risk of people just coming in to spam or troll, but that's the same anywhere. I guess the only problem I've had is they feel a bit more ethereal than "blog" or "post" type websites. But honestly it does have the massive benefit of not needing constant posting to make people remember other people.

Wishing you well, and hope the server works out!

Whoops found this a little late I guess.

I used to be on what I think you're referring to as the older incarnation of Alora Fane, the site after Fig Hunter at least.  Honestly it was my favorite design for a website.  I drifted away after being engrossed in the community for quite a while, and then later needed some sort of online community again quite some time later, and turned to Discord servers.  I found a really cool little server, but it finally blew apart after a long drifting slow demise after some very odd disagreements with other mods (I was a mod, and made a smaller server to kinda house the refugees of it).  I used to be on a lot of political servers too, but they ended up being a bit too toxic (and prone to just exploding into five new servers at a moment's notice because they usually include elections).

My apologies to anyone who reads this for the rambling, but there is a lot to be said for discord servers as a way to connect to people.  There are a few really important aspects to be careful of though.  Private ones don't really have to worry about gates/member roles, but if you advertise it anywhere there is the risk of people just coming in to spam or troll, but that's the same anywhere.  I guess the only problem I've had is they feel a bit more ethereal than "blog" or "post" type websites.  But honestly it does have the massive benefit of not needing constant posting to make people remember other people.

Wishing you well, and hope the server works out!