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Weekly Update - Pierce Intro Video, Minimap, Raider OST
4 years ago - Edited 4 years ago1,975 words
The main thing I want to show this week is a video of Atonal Dreams' intro bit in preparation for a maybe-soon demo, which I'd very much like to hear your thoughts about! I also added a minimap, and uploaded the OSTs of two Raider games as the Album of the Week.

Atonal Dreams Progress
Apparently I showed off an early version of the intro scene with Pierce in ∞ this post ∞, 3 months ago. I've mostly left it alone since then to focus on other things; I wanted to finish a draft of the script in its entirety first, for one, so then I'd have a very clear idea of every step of the story for foreshadowing/lore consistency reasons.

I've currently written half of the script, but I thought it'd be wise to use that to build the demo I've been talking about for ages rather than waiting until I've finished the whole draft. I might be able to get to that point in a week or two (we'll see), but the first steps were to apply the new script to this intro scene, plus I needed to do some technical tweaks and additions to get it all working as it should.

Here's a video of what I have so far:



I showed an earlier version of this (I've since made a few tweaks) to my Patreon patrons a few days ago, and... well, to be entirely honest, I suppose it set off various unpleasantly familiar mental issues stuff. While working on this in my little bubble, I was so happy with it; I'd read through the written script and be brought to tears with happiness! But when the response - which wasn't bad at all! - wasn't the same kind of enthusiastic excitement (and why would it be?), I suppose it was just deflating and got me worrying that maybe people won't like it, maybe I've written something that'd count as wrongthink and get me cancelled and all that... I've talked about it a lot before. I suppose if you've been through any mental trauma, it doesn't take much to set it all off again, plus showing off any kind of creation to potentially-judging eyes is always a tough thing for sensitive little sausages such as myself.

So watching this back now, I just feel... nothing, mostly. The dark thoughts didn't last long at least, but now they've combined with the light ones to leave something more dull and grey. So I don't know how good this is at all (though watching it for the dozenth time is always going to be different to a first viewing anyway).

EDIT: I just wanted to add a little something to this bit since it probably seemed like I had particular issues with something someone had said in response on Patreon, which wasn't the case and I feel bad for the implication! It's less about what anyone said or didn't, and more like... just the thought that other people have even seen what I've been working on triggers a whole bunch of insecurities that have built up over time, especially with the idea of being 'cancelled' in some way. Seems I'm not the only creator who's concerned about this, and I wonder if it's just unavoidable. (End edit)

One thing it got me wondering is how long an intro should be, or how long is too long. The original plan was to immediately plunge the player into a battle, because I always got impatient through RPG intros and couldn't pay attention until I got to experience free gameplay, but the written script translated to more time than I expected it to... Though for this video, I read out all the lines under my breath to determine how long I should leave the text boxes up for, and it might be a lot quicker for someone in charge of their rate of progression.

I just did some timing tests to see how long it takes between clicking on the save slot and being able to run around in the field:

In the video, it's almost exactly 8 minutes.

While playing the game myself, it took 4:54, but notably it felt a lot quicker than watching a video passively.

In Skyrim (hardly a comparable example, but it was the first thing that came to mind), according to a random longplay I just found, it takes around 8 minutes before you can move of your own accord, though the character creation would take variable time, and the cinematography is obviously much more varied.

I also checked a longplay of FFVI - the second game that jumped to mind - and that takes something like 4-6 minutes before you take control? Though much of that is just watching credits, and the dialogue that there is is quite scant.

If you can think of other games with decent intros and you're inclined to do so, it'd be valuable if you could check the length of their intros either with a longplay, or with a stopwatch while playing them yourself!

What the intro's aiming to achieve makes a big difference though, of course. Atonal Dreams focuses on characters and lore; it's designed for the sort of players who - like myself - play games primarily for feelings of immersion. As such, most of the themes and lore details that the game would go onto explore are presented - or at least hinted at - here in some form; even the banter was carefully written to be reflections of deep psychology that'd play a story role later on.

There are a few tweaks I want to make which would cut down the length a bit; some lines are just unnecessary, or I feel they don't really work.

I'd like to know what you think, anyway. Does this interest or intrigue you? Do you like or care about the characters from what you've seen of them here? Do you feel it's too long? If you do, what sort of games do you prefer? What games do you feel had particularly good, gripping intros?



Getting that ready took much of the week (there were a lot of stupid technical things or bugs I had to sort out), though I also had time to add minimaps:



I figured the process out myself, and it only took a couple of hours; faster than I thought. The minimap is a bitmap procedurally-generated from the geometry, so it's pixelated and only shows basic elevation, but that seems good enough to me. It's cut up into 'rooms' which reveal themselves as you first enter them, and all monsters and treasure are marked.

I didn't give much thought to where it should go; I just put it in the bottom right because that's what felt natural to me. But when I showed it on Twitter, someone said it felt wrong to them, and that minimaps were usually in the upper right. This surprised me; I don't think I've ever seen a minimap at the top before! But then again I can't really remember where other games have had them. So I started a poll about it, and these are the results at the moment:



Very surprising to me! I wondered whether there was a super popular game like Minecraft that had the minimap there, but I was told that that game doesn't even have one without a mod. Someone else mentioned MMOs that have them there, so maybe it's that?

I don't play as many games as I should, but the most recent ones I did play, Animal Crossing New Horizons:



And Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity (which I'm currently in the middle of):



Both have their minimaps in the lower right, which is probably why it felt natural to me to put it there.

What would feel natural to you? And do you know why that might be, which games have it there?

Music Album of the Week

Like I said... at some point, I'm trying to arrange all my old music compositions into these albums on Bandcamp. This one's the first old game soundtrack, for Raider!

Link: [LINK]

For whatever reason, I made two completely separate games, both called Raider. There was this one, which was one of my first Flash games, which I worked on between 2006 and 2008 but never finished or officially released (though I think I put it on Fig Hunter?):



And this pixel one, which I did release 2 out of the intended 5 chapters of, though they got a fairly meh response so I never bothered making the rest (I had the third mostly finished except for a boss):



I've never compiled their music into OSTs before or released them anywhere like this, as far as I know, and there are tracks here for unfinished parts of the games that I don't think I've released anywhere.

Apparently my approach to composition changed quite a bit between 2006 and 2009, and I'd say the music for the pixel Raider is still something I feel somewhat proud about, despite its imperfections. I remember some comments when I released the game on Kongregate about how good the music was (like someone saying it was too good to mute) that still stick pleasantly with me!

Both of these soundtracks were from around the time I made MARDEK and composed for that, so I'd say they're about the same in terms of quality.

'Converting' them from midis to wavs (by recording the midis as they played) took like 4 hours, especially since a few of the pieces use an excessive amount of instruments (I prefer minimal numbers of instruments these days), which didn't play back properly all at once, so I had to record the midi twice with half the instruments muted and layer the two recordings on top of each other... Quite a chore, though I'm glad to have the music in a more enduring and consistent form now, finally!

While I was intending to use art from the same years as the compositions for the album art as I did with the first two albums, this one's a painting I did of that character in 2013 for some reason.


Other Indie Games
Playing a new indie game each week is a habit I still need to get into! While playing Timelie last week, I was also slowly working my way through the aforementioned Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, but doing both at the same time was taking too long, so I've devoted this week to getting through that before starting another indie. I'm still not done though, despite spending 2-3 hours a day on it! I'm almost there, I think. I'll talk about it in a post when I am - and maybe it'll be as phenomenally popular as ∞ the Timelie one was ∞ (162 views currently) - but I will say that it's grown on me despite initial doubts and I'm quite enjoying it at the moment!

My indie game research this week involved watching a long video that I want to write a separate post about, since I've got a lot to say about it, so I'll do that!

ANOTHER EDIT: I did that and ∞ the post is here ∞.

Also...
I keep wanting to redesign this website a bit, so maybe I'll do that when I have the time. If you're here, how did you get here? Does anyone use the main page, or do you just get to the blog directly, or to specific posts when I announce them on Twitter or you get emails about them? Does it still look terrible on mobiles?

18 COMMENTS

Spectre35~4Y
Not a hardcore gamer, but I noticed that many MMORPGs and some old RTS games like Red Alert have their minimap on top right. I voted for top right as well.
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mount201046~4Y
About the website, I personally use the main page. If you're doing a redesign, consider figuring out a poll system so you can ask questions like "hmm, do people use the main page, or do they subscribe to the oh-so-mandatory-newslist?" I understand you've been using Twitter for this, but, selfishly, I deleted my Twitter account because I wasn't using it for much and I don't really like the platform... But hey - consider it!
I was about to say that mobile look*ed* wonk, but I checked again, and it now looks as I expect from a mobile website! Good job.
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Tobias 1115~4Y
I'm glad at least someone uses the main page! I frequently think of poll ideas and Twitter's are only limited to four options, so I'd be quite happy to add some kind of Poll of the Week or something here!
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Astreon152~4Y
Would it be possible to code the map so that players can put it where they want on the screen ?

I've played games that allowed you to move absolutely everything, health bar, map, etc. Every display was in the form of a box you could move by clicking on its perimeter.
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Tobias 1115~4Y
I've played some of those games too, though there's a certain feel to them that I don't think suits what I'm making. Seems more suited to a GUI-heavy strategy game, MMO, or something that involves a lot of micromanaging and technical thought to master, whereas I'm aiming for something simple and streamlined.

Can you think of any recentish games like that actually? All the games that are coming to mind for me are old!

I've been wondering whether to add a top/bottom option at least, though I'm just hoping it being in the bottom right is something people will accept and get used to as a part of the look of this game...
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Astreon152~4Y
Right, that was indeed a mmorpg, and i haven't seen it outside this genre.

I guess maps can be pretty much anywhere, and i don't think anyone would be upset by the mini-map being somewhere unusual to them, to the point that they give up the game.
To me it's just part of getting accustomed to the game mechanics.

Are you planning to implement a full map too ? Maybe it's not necessary, especially if the islands are not that big, but sometimes pressing a key to have a full screen map can be useful to identify the unexplored parts.
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Tobias 1115~4Y
The game only uses two main areas: the overworld and underworld, each of which is 6x6 'rooms'. The minimap shows all of them (or it will when I actually add them). You can press a button to increase the size and move it to the centre, as seen in the gif in this post!
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Astreon152~4Y
Yeah, but that's quite far from a full screen map :)

I understand that for a 6x6 grid it wouldn't be necessary, but on the other hand i don't see much use for your bigger centered map.

Sure, it makes the map easier to read for players with poor eyesight, but then why not directly make the bottom right map slightly bigger, something in between the 2 sizes ?

Has anyone else given their opinion on the centered bigger map ? Might be interesting to know if it'd actually be useful at all.
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Tobias 1115~4Y
I made it like this because I rely heavily on maps in games and this is the sort of map that I'd want for this kind of game. The small version gives an idea of the current room in relation to others without taking up too much screen space, but the bigger one clarifies fine details and can be conveniently toggled with a button press. It might change over time depending on what feedback I get during testing.

The main purpose of this post was the video of the intro, this minimap was an afterthought, but there's been little feedback about the intro and a bunch about the minimap...
0
Refurin24~4Y
Oddly I can't think of any game I've ever played with a minimap in the top right and every minimap I can think of has been in the bottom right.

So bottom right is definitely what I'm used to.
1
Falcon64~4Y
I typically reach the blog from the main page, as it also has a convenient link to your Twitter, which I check at the same time.

Personally, a minimap at the bottom right feels the most natural to me, and I say that as an avid MMO player. Guild Wars 2, the MMO I've spent perhaps the most time in, has it there, but it is true that many popular ones, including World of Warcraft, have it in the top-right corner by default. I feel like that is a relic of the old-style UI design, and games with more modern UIs strive to put all the vital information at the bottom (such as character status in the bottom-center and minimap in the bottom-right), to minimize the distance eyes have to travel during hectic situations, and let the player focus more on the game world itself.

Ultimately though, I feel that minimap position doesn't particularly matter for Divine Dreams (seeing how it's a low-intensity game in the overworld), and people will get quickly used to it no matter where you put it. I'd put it wherever you feel it best harmonizes with other UI elements (if there are any)!
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Tobias 1115~4Y
This is what I'm thinking too: maybe people are thinking of old or very differently-focused games with upper-right minimaps, and I'm hoping players will just be okay with the lower right map since it's going to be the only UI element on the field.
1
Verdusk21~4Y
Here's a quick look on minimap locations of the game I've played.

1. Drox Operative and Din's Curse (both RPGs from the same dev) is top-right.
2. FATE (the old dungeon crawler RPG for PC) has it on the lower-left.
3. Terraria, the super popular RPG platformer is also top-right.
4. RTS games such as Starcraft, Age of Empires, and MOBA games like DoTA 2, as I mentioned in Twitter, has it on the bottom left.
5. Skyrim - No minimap in unmodded as far as I know, but it has a compass thing on the middle-top, which I think is also a thing in several MMORPGs.
6. Rogue Fable (dungeon crawler roguelike) has the minimap on the top-right, and the entire right side of the screen is a menu bar.
7. Battle for Wesnoth, open-source turn-based strategy game, also has minimap on the top-right and the right part of the screen is a menu bar.
8. Rogue Legacy (platformer roguelite) also has minimap on the top-right.
9. Factorio, the time sink base-building automation game, also has minimap on the top-right.

In conclusion, I think there's a clear bias for top-right minimaps in the games that I play. That's 6 of 9 games listed!
1
Tobias 1115~4Y
Thanks for this, it's valuable to see! Though honestly sort of annoying that the place that feels natural to me isn't the case for any of those! I haven't played any of those and haven't even heard of most of them! I should play more games though.
1
bkjnt2019~4Y
I really like the intro! It made me smile and laugh multiple times and I don’t think I’m one of the people who laughs at everything. I think this would definitely appeal to a lot of people. I can particularly imagine Pierce being especially popular; I love his silly run at the end. In terms of length, it might be a bit longer than what some people are used to given that a fair few games just give you control immediately, but I don’t think it’s really an issue. Frankly, the reason I’m excited to see the games you make is because I’m interested in what the characters say and do; it’s not about pressing the optimal series of buttons to win the game. So I don’t see cutscenes as something to get over with as fast as possible to be enjoyed; I don’t know how many people this is true of, but if anyone is going to give up on the game in the first five minutes because the intro feels too ‘long’ I don’t think they would be interested in your stuff in the first place. I agreed with what other people said about the text boxes and fisting line but I think both of those issues have been satisfactorily corrected. I’m not qualified to answer the minimap question given that I can’t remember the last time I played a game with a minimap but I feel like not a whole lot of people would care; any feelings of strangeness about it being in a weird place would subside after playing the game for a bit.

I’m glad you released the Raider soundtrack, now I’ll never have to go to that shady guy on Youtube again!!! It’s interesting to hear those two (I think?) unreleased tracks for the pixel Raider, they sound eerily similar to MARDEK, which makes sense considering they must have been composed at very similar times. I still have a soft spot for the first Raider, and I can say that even if the technical quality is inferior to the later stuff it’s still pleasant to listen to. The main theme is still really good!

I go to the main page and then click on the blog posts that are displayed there, personally.
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Tobias 1115~4Y
Thanks for commenting on the intro!! I'm glad you liked it! I'm hoping that Pierce will appeal to people, so hearing just one person who likes him is promising at least!

Can you think of any story-driven games that throw you in without any kind of intro? Maybe some non-narrative ones do that, though I can't think of any RPGs that do. Could be because I don't play enough games, though. Most have a fairly length intro in my experience. The game is aimed at people who like story and plot and character dialogue first and foremost - like I do myself - so if they're put off by that at the start, they probably wouldn't like the rest anyway!

(Hmm, I suppose FFVII throws you right in, come to think of it? FFIX too? Maybe long intros aren't as common as I thought.)

Interesting that the Raider stuff sounds MARDEK-reminiscent to you; I can see how that would be the case since they were composed around the same time!

Thanks for the feedback!
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bkjnt2019~4Y
I don't play a whole lot of games either! The most obvious example of an intro-less story driven game that comes to mind is Undertale, where you get to walk around immediately after choosing a name. Of course, the next few minutes incorporate the game mechanics so it's sort of like a tutorial; I don't know what exactly is considered an intro. There is also the title screen story thing, which I don't know whether it counts. I mean in this one you still have some control of the actions you're choosing in the battle, right? In general I think it's more important what actually happens vs the extent to which the player has control.
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